Support for Ledbury supermarket plan tops 1,000 (From Hereford Times)
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Support for Ledbury supermarket plan tops 1,000
12:51pm Friday 13th January 2012 in Ledbury By David Higgs
OVER a thousand people have put their names to a petition backing plans for the construction of a Sainsbury's superstore in Ledbury, campaigners say.
Advocates Ledbury Supports Sainsburys (LESS) support the supermarket chain's proposals to build a 30,000 sq ft retail store and petrol station on Leadon Way.
A formal application has been submitted to Herefordshire Council and is expected to be determined sometime before April.
LESS spokesman Colin Marschall said the petition has reached 1,100 names and is expected to grow over the coming weeks.
He said: “LESS believes that the new store is crucial to cater to the needs of the community and the on-going expansion of the town, both in terms of choice, new jobs and a new petrol station.
“Nearly everyone we speak to says that the store will be a welcome addition and we are keen to keep increasing the number of signatures on our popular petition before we hand it in to the council.”
Opponents of the plans argue that, if granted, a Sainsbury's superstore would have a damaging affect on Ledbury's town centre trade.
For more information on the LESS campaign, visit www.ledburysupportssainsburys.co.uk or contact 0800 975 5299.
Comments(68)
Terri1963
says...
10:35pm Fri 13 Jan 12
I completely support Sainsbury's bid to build a New Supermarket off the bypass in Ledbury as Ledbury needs the jobs on offer and Ledbury needs this investment too.
Hilary Jones
says...
12:31am Sat 14 Jan 12
No, we don't need a new Sainsbury's any more than we needed a new Tesco, especially where food is concerned. All the food anyone could need is here in the town centre - four butchers, two greengrocers, two delis AND a wholefood/organic shop, never mind an existing Co-op, the existing Tesco and two convenience stores.
A new Sainsbury's would suck trade out of the town centre, and with it jobs in the existing shops.
But please, Hereford Times, do your job properly. There are two well-supported sides to this argument, but all you ever do is print the one that's just sent you a press release (yes, this applies to the opposition too)
A new Sainsbury's would suck trade out of the town centre, and with it jobs in the existing shops.
But please, Hereford Times, do your job properly. There are two well-supported sides to this argument, but all you ever do is print the one that's just sent you a press release (yes, this applies to the opposition too)
Hilary Jones
says...
12:32am Sat 14 Jan 12
No, we don't need a new Sainsbury's any more than we needed a new Tesco, especially where food is concerned. All the food anyone could need is here in the town centre - four butchers, two greengrocers, two delis AND a wholefood/organic shop, never mind an existing Co-op, the existing Tesco and two convenience stores.
A new Sainsbury's would suck trade out of the town centre, and with it jobs in the existing shops.
But please, Hereford Times, do your job properly. There are two well-supported sides to this argument, but all you ever do is print the one that's just sent you a press release (yes, this applies to the opposition too)
A new Sainsbury's would suck trade out of the town centre, and with it jobs in the existing shops.
But please, Hereford Times, do your job properly. There are two well-supported sides to this argument, but all you ever do is print the one that's just sent you a press release (yes, this applies to the opposition too)
AgainstBS
says...
1:24am Sat 14 Jan 12
As a supporter and member of LESS I have to take exception to Hilary Jones comment .. Where exactly is the documented proof that a new store will do the things you say, all the 'evidence' I have seen from LOTS is based around, If this happens then possibly this will happen, and while there are all those shops you say in Ledbury there are also a large number of people who simply cannot afford to use them or haven't got the time to spend wandering from shop to shop carrying 5/6 bags for a couple of hours and having to pay for the privilege of parking while they do so.
Did you know that approx 50% of the population (some 5,000 people) go to other towns/cities to do their weekly shoping (including some members of LOTS), do you not think that many of those will use Sainsbury's if it is built which would mean little or no effect on the high street.
Can you tell me that there is another national company willing to come to Ledbury and offer over 200 jobs, because I can't - even UBL, one of Ledbury's largest employers are cutting staff.
Herefordshire has an ageing population, Herefordshire councils own figures show this with a percentage higher than the national average of 16-24 year olds leaving the county, these people are the future of the town, ignore them at your peril.
Did you know that approx 50% of the population (some 5,000 people) go to other towns/cities to do their weekly shoping (including some members of LOTS), do you not think that many of those will use Sainsbury's if it is built which would mean little or no effect on the high street.
Can you tell me that there is another national company willing to come to Ledbury and offer over 200 jobs, because I can't - even UBL, one of Ledbury's largest employers are cutting staff.
Herefordshire has an ageing population, Herefordshire councils own figures show this with a percentage higher than the national average of 16-24 year olds leaving the county, these people are the future of the town, ignore them at your peril.
RichHadley
says...
9:05am Sat 14 Jan 12
Some of the factual reasons Sainsbury's plan is disastrous for Ledbury include:
1. It will damage the viability and vitality of Ledbury High Street by diverting significant trade (around £15m) from town centre shops and supermarkets to a large convenience store on the edge of town.
2. The out of town location (15 minutes’ walk from centre) will reduce pedestrian footfall in town, as is well documented in other locations, reducing trade and turnover, and thus inevitably leading to shop closures including potentially the Coop supermarket as well as other food and everyday shops that depend upon passing trade.
3. Linked Trips: ‘An out of centre store is less likely to encourage shoppers to visit the town centre as part of a ‘linked’ shopping trip’ – this is what Sainsbury’s themselves say on their web site promoting their town centre development in Thame Oxfordshire (www.sainsburys-tham
e.co.uk/background-a
news.html).
4. The size of the development is disproportionate to the needs of a town the size of Ledbury. Herefordshire Council's own retail planning consultants have stated that the level of retail expenditure in Ledbury, even taking account of population and economic growth up to 2026 and beyond, could not sustain a supermarket of the size envisaged here without significantly damaging the existing trading environment.
5. The 220 part time supermarket jobs created will lead to more than 270 full time jobs lost in the local economy according to research. The proposed development involves a significant change of land use from industrial to retail. (Such a change would severely damage the credibility of the County Council’s planning framework and establish an bad precedent for other future planning applications.)
6. The huge size of the trading development (over £30 million according to Sainsbury’s own figures) is designed to deliver a one-stop shopping experience removing the need to venture into town for everyday items as is currently the shopping pattern. Far from offering more choice, the superstore will ultimately damage trade in town to the extent that there will be a huge loss of choice and competition because so many independent operators will be put out of business.
Local support for this scheme is being orchestrated by a team of spin-doctors called Gough PR which has recently won two “gold awards” from the Chartered Institute of Public Relations for its work drumming up public support in similar manner for Sainsbury’s in Leek and Wombourne: www.gough.co.uk/awar
ds Nice!
For a more balanced view, readers might like to check out www.saveledbury.com which is organised voluntarily by local residents who care passionately about their town and have horizons beyond the end of a supermarket aisle. Unlike Gough PR and their paymasters, the thousands of opponents of the out of town superstore in Ledbury are motivated by local pride and a sense of community responsibility - not money.
1. It will damage the viability and vitality of Ledbury High Street by diverting significant trade (around £15m) from town centre shops and supermarkets to a large convenience store on the edge of town.
2. The out of town location (15 minutes’ walk from centre) will reduce pedestrian footfall in town, as is well documented in other locations, reducing trade and turnover, and thus inevitably leading to shop closures including potentially the Coop supermarket as well as other food and everyday shops that depend upon passing trade.
3. Linked Trips: ‘An out of centre store is less likely to encourage shoppers to visit the town centre as part of a ‘linked’ shopping trip’ – this is what Sainsbury’s themselves say on their web site promoting their town centre development in Thame Oxfordshire (www.sainsburys-tham
e.co.uk/background-a
news.html).
4. The size of the development is disproportionate to the needs of a town the size of Ledbury. Herefordshire Council's own retail planning consultants have stated that the level of retail expenditure in Ledbury, even taking account of population and economic growth up to 2026 and beyond, could not sustain a supermarket of the size envisaged here without significantly damaging the existing trading environment.
5. The 220 part time supermarket jobs created will lead to more than 270 full time jobs lost in the local economy according to research. The proposed development involves a significant change of land use from industrial to retail. (Such a change would severely damage the credibility of the County Council’s planning framework and establish an bad precedent for other future planning applications.)
6. The huge size of the trading development (over £30 million according to Sainsbury’s own figures) is designed to deliver a one-stop shopping experience removing the need to venture into town for everyday items as is currently the shopping pattern. Far from offering more choice, the superstore will ultimately damage trade in town to the extent that there will be a huge loss of choice and competition because so many independent operators will be put out of business.
Local support for this scheme is being orchestrated by a team of spin-doctors called Gough PR which has recently won two “gold awards” from the Chartered Institute of Public Relations for its work drumming up public support in similar manner for Sainsbury’s in Leek and Wombourne: www.gough.co.uk/awar
ds Nice!
For a more balanced view, readers might like to check out www.saveledbury.com which is organised voluntarily by local residents who care passionately about their town and have horizons beyond the end of a supermarket aisle. Unlike Gough PR and their paymasters, the thousands of opponents of the out of town superstore in Ledbury are motivated by local pride and a sense of community responsibility - not money.
AgainstBS
says...
9:23am Sat 14 Jan 12
"For a more balanced view, readers might like to check out www.saveledbury.com which is organised voluntarily by local residents who care passionately about their town and have horizons beyond the end of a supermarket aisle. Unlike Gough PR and their paymasters, the thousands of opponents of the out of town superstore in Ledbury are motivated by local pride and a sense of community responsibility - not money."
You mean an organised smear campaign, there is nothing "balanced" about the views of LOTS or the SaveLedbury web page, if Ledbury needs saving its from the type of people who use scare tactics to try and convince people they are their knights in shining armour.
Again we see a whole lot of absolute comments here, so where is your proof, show us the proof that what you say will directly effect Ledbury.
You just can't stand the thought that the Ledbury people have actually woken up to your spin.
The LESS campaign has been set up BY local people FOR local people as the thousands of local people will surely show (we don't need to gleen people from far away places to bolster our petition .. unlike some)
You mean an organised smear campaign, there is nothing "balanced" about the views of LOTS or the SaveLedbury web page, if Ledbury needs saving its from the type of people who use scare tactics to try and convince people they are their knights in shining armour.
Again we see a whole lot of absolute comments here, so where is your proof, show us the proof that what you say will directly effect Ledbury.
You just can't stand the thought that the Ledbury people have actually woken up to your spin.
The LESS campaign has been set up BY local people FOR local people as the thousands of local people will surely show (we don't need to gleen people from far away places to bolster our petition .. unlike some)
Ledlass
says...
9:54am Sat 14 Jan 12
I am totally for the new store, and im also fed up with the total scaremongering and bullying ways that I have witnessed by LOTS. When you break their figures down, they really don't amount to much. I am one of those 50% plus who shop out of town, for the reasons that the town does not provide what I need. I am not one of the elite who can afford to pay a lot more for the food in the high street. What I do see is a lot of contradiction, and some members of LOTS not practicing what they preach, with certain very vocal members, carrying asda shopping bags across the car parks. So its like they are saying as long as Im ok Jack sod the rest of Ledbury. Well Ledbury is a live and kicking and fed up with the same old nonsense that group is delivering. Its great that there is so many signatures, local ones, not ones from out of the area. Good job Ledbury, keep up the good work! Oh and well done LESS for showing Lots that you do exist and you are capable of doing things, right underneath their noses!
Dawning
says...
10:17am Sat 14 Jan 12
Fantastic Ledbury, keep it up, we need a new store which meets the needs of all the locals. But more importantly we badly need the jobs. I don't care if its not as many as they say, a job is a job, and its more then there is in the pipe line for Ledbury. And for the abnoxious man who shouted out at the recent local town council meeting about who would want a job there. I would, a long with lots others.
Jo Bloise
says...
10:21am Sat 14 Jan 12
It`s refreshing to finally read how the longstanding people of Ledbury are taking a stand for what they believe in!
To suggest that we are thinking only towards the end of an aisle shows how little consideration is given to the hardworking people of this town and their opinions after all we ALL live here and are all entitled to our views.
Ledbury has become static,it hasn`t met the needs of local people for a very long time,hence the amount of positive support.I think that LOTS have underestimated the true feeling of people here in Ledbury and if they had taken their time to actually ASK the locals instead of bombarding tourists they may have been surprised at the level of feeling in the town for a much needed superstore.
Throwing out statistics and scaremongering just does not take away from the simple fact that as much as we love our town( and we do LOVE our town) we simply cannot afford to shop in the majority of shops within the town anyway.We do not hop in to our cars and take the journey to the nearest city for pure pleasure,we do it because it suits our budgets far better.
To have a bigger store is forward thinking and can only benefit Ledbury and it`s inhabitants.
I speak on behalf of many many people.We have to move with the times and cater to the ever growing population of Ledbury,it`s as simple as that.
To suggest that we are thinking only towards the end of an aisle shows how little consideration is given to the hardworking people of this town and their opinions after all we ALL live here and are all entitled to our views.
Ledbury has become static,it hasn`t met the needs of local people for a very long time,hence the amount of positive support.I think that LOTS have underestimated the true feeling of people here in Ledbury and if they had taken their time to actually ASK the locals instead of bombarding tourists they may have been surprised at the level of feeling in the town for a much needed superstore.
Throwing out statistics and scaremongering just does not take away from the simple fact that as much as we love our town( and we do LOVE our town) we simply cannot afford to shop in the majority of shops within the town anyway.We do not hop in to our cars and take the journey to the nearest city for pure pleasure,we do it because it suits our budgets far better.
To have a bigger store is forward thinking and can only benefit Ledbury and it`s inhabitants.
I speak on behalf of many many people.We have to move with the times and cater to the ever growing population of Ledbury,it`s as simple as that.
Jo Bloise
says...
10:21am Sat 14 Jan 12
It`s refreshing to finally read how the longstanding people of Ledbury are taking a stand for what they believe in!
To suggest that we are thinking only towards the end of an aisle shows how little consideration is given to the hardworking people of this town and their opinions after all we ALL live here and are all entitled to our views.
Ledbury has become static,it hasn`t met the needs of local people for a very long time,hence the amount of positive support.I think that LOTS have underestimated the true feeling of people here in Ledbury and if they had taken their time to actually ASK the locals instead of bombarding tourists they may have been surprised at the level of feeling in the town for a much needed superstore.
Throwing out statistics and scaremongering just does not take away from the simple fact that as much as we love our town( and we do LOVE our town) we simply cannot afford to shop in the majority of shops within the town anyway.We do not hop in to our cars and take the journey to the nearest city for pure pleasure,we do it because it suits our budgets far better.
To have a bigger store is forward thinking and can only benefit Ledbury and it`s inhabitants.
I speak on behalf of many many people.We have to move with the times and cater to the ever growing population of Ledbury,it`s as simple as that.
To suggest that we are thinking only towards the end of an aisle shows how little consideration is given to the hardworking people of this town and their opinions after all we ALL live here and are all entitled to our views.
Ledbury has become static,it hasn`t met the needs of local people for a very long time,hence the amount of positive support.I think that LOTS have underestimated the true feeling of people here in Ledbury and if they had taken their time to actually ASK the locals instead of bombarding tourists they may have been surprised at the level of feeling in the town for a much needed superstore.
Throwing out statistics and scaremongering just does not take away from the simple fact that as much as we love our town( and we do LOVE our town) we simply cannot afford to shop in the majority of shops within the town anyway.We do not hop in to our cars and take the journey to the nearest city for pure pleasure,we do it because it suits our budgets far better.
To have a bigger store is forward thinking and can only benefit Ledbury and it`s inhabitants.
I speak on behalf of many many people.We have to move with the times and cater to the ever growing population of Ledbury,it`s as simple as that.
MartinJames
says...
11:03am Sat 14 Jan 12
Of course the LOTS opposition group may well enquire about balanced and fair reporting but isn't it just that same group who are guilty of hijacking council meetings, (a phrase used by one of their own favoured Ledbury Portal admin fellows), isn't it they who hog the column inches with spurious claims and scaremongering cherry picked claims in the local Ledbury Reporter and isn't it they who are guilty of not opening shops on bank holidays when a street carnival plays host to the towns single busiest day of the year attracting 1000s of people out into the main streets,closing shops when the street fair is in town, failing to have 1 single cafe open on Boxing Day when the streets of Ledbury have over 4000 visitors in them.
I would suggest that the silent majority are actually now becoming a little less silent and are beginning to speak about what the town really wants
Swings and roundbouts LOTS, swings and roundabouts!
I would suggest that the silent majority are actually now becoming a little less silent and are beginning to speak about what the town really wants
Swings and roundbouts LOTS, swings and roundabouts!
chrissy6
says...
11:16am Sat 14 Jan 12
I fully support Sainsburys bid. It is very much wanted and needed in Ledbury. The majority of locals do support it, we are making ourselves heard!! I for one cant afford or have the time to shop in the town centre shops, and want all my everyday items under one roof. People who shop in town shops can carry on shopping in them, but allow others who wish for Sainsburys to shop there. Not forgetting all the jobs it will bring with it, part time or not! Bring it on!!!
domestic=lady
says...
12:26pm Sat 14 Jan 12
I can't wait for the new Sainsbury's store to open, more choice, better prices and not having to que for petrol, all on our doorstep. Add to the that the extra jobs, what's not to like?
The majority of Ledbury's 10,000 residents, including key members of LOTS, shop out of town for everyday items for two reasons
a) you can't get what you want
b) it's stocked locally but much too expensive.
People living around the outskirts of Ledbury - Newent, Bartestree, Bromyard,Colwall and Malvern areas will probably choose to shop here to avoid their local city's congestion. They will be doing the same as Ledbury folk do now and that is use the other shops in the area of their main supermarket.
Malvern was on the news the other night as being a busy and thriving little town despite having a retail park. Bromyard was mentioned in this weeks Reporter as being a hive of activity. Tewkesbury, busy, Ross on Wye, always busy. How can people not want this?
Come on Ledbury's shopkeepers, open your eyes and embrace all the new people coming into town. They could also be your customers - can you really afford to turn them away?
The majority of Ledbury's 10,000 residents, including key members of LOTS, shop out of town for everyday items for two reasons
a) you can't get what you want
b) it's stocked locally but much too expensive.
People living around the outskirts of Ledbury - Newent, Bartestree, Bromyard,Colwall and Malvern areas will probably choose to shop here to avoid their local city's congestion. They will be doing the same as Ledbury folk do now and that is use the other shops in the area of their main supermarket.
Malvern was on the news the other night as being a busy and thriving little town despite having a retail park. Bromyard was mentioned in this weeks Reporter as being a hive of activity. Tewkesbury, busy, Ross on Wye, always busy. How can people not want this?
Come on Ledbury's shopkeepers, open your eyes and embrace all the new people coming into town. They could also be your customers - can you really afford to turn them away?
baboo2you
says...
12:59pm Sat 14 Jan 12
The fact that the building contract will probably be given to an contracters like Kier constuction registerd Office England who will have there own contracters to deal with work so no local people in this area unless appointed by them would be doing the work. I know someone that does jobs for large contracters and some of his work is shopfiiting most contracts are I have friends that work in local shops there jobs WILL go, where I agree the need for an appropriate-sized food store just not one of this size, They could have instore units for hairdresser so local shops could be affected as well s butchers etc. The COOP would probably close as it could not compete with Tesco / Sainsburys, and how long does being a local count, 1 year, 10 years a life time people have there own opinion? in you LOVE your town? you should LOVE your High Street? next they will be doing estate agents of preferred estate agents in units in stores like they do in London, or Birmingham and any local estate agent and people working for them could be affected. I think the vegetarians of this town should support the fruit and veg shops like meat eaters support butchers... fresher cheaper (tastier) than some packaged sweated item that last two days, example I bought gammon joint from supermarket (disguised as reformed cuts of meat) lasted two days cost £5.00 bought same cut of meat (real thing a joint) a little bigger for £6.99 lasted for three dinners and sandwiches all week, soup and pizza topping, plus veg from Jenkin. Shop staff work all year round in a cafe is not open in Boxing day and chooses to close let them close? hotels are open did you go in there, a coffee in the Talbot is cheaper than some cafes??? Public holidays and Bank Holidays let anyone have a day off would you say that Nat West was not open on a Bank Holiday and that was wrong. If you LOVE your town so much support the HIGH street and the people and the jobs that are in it...
AgainstBS
says...
1:49pm Sat 14 Jan 12
So much of what baboo2you has said almost doesn't need responses to, as anyone with any sense will know that cafe workers DO have time off, usually during the week and that its called a "bank holiday" for a reason, the word bank gives it away. My partner actually works in one of the cafes in Ledbury and I can tell you that the majority of those who do are part time.
As to the comparision of buying from a supermarket or a local store a lot of people would probably agree with you and as such have the choice to use the local stores, why shouldn't those who choose or can only afford to shop at a supermarket have the same privilege.
Have you actually read the comment I posted above, I'll re-cap for you. 50%, thats approx 5,000 people (that doesn't include those in the outlying villages etc) who live in Ledbury DO NOT use the town for their weekly shopping .. don't you wonder how many of them would prefer to shop in a decent sized store here in Ledbury as oppose to travelling to Malvern, Hereford etc.
As to your comment on which construction company would get the work, that applies to any large company building premises. UBL did not use a local company, Amcor did not use a local company and do you think Herefordshire council will use a local company when the building work starts on the 800 new houses .. your point is irrelevant, unless of course you plan to object to the new houses and any other large company building new premises in or around the town.
I have yet to see ANY concrete proof that shops and jobs will go in Ledbury if the store is built, dig a little deeper into the figures LOTS are shouting about and you see that a large number of the towns LOTS say have been hit by an new store ALREADY had another large store but with LOTS and their selective reporting that doesn't seem to matter, or the fact that one of the towns they picked as an example of a town gone down-hill since a store came there, Malvern, has this week had a report in the local media showing that it is actually a vibrant place to shop.
I'll also ask you how many other major UK companies are offering to build something here in Ledbury and offer 200+ jobs to the local people .. answer none!
We have a petition with over 1,000 local names (local as in people who actually live in Herefordshire and/or Ledbury) and that is without ANY media coverage of the petition, in fact LOTS only became aware of the petition over the last few days . .we haven't needed to (as yet) stand on the street and get names from any Tom, Dick or Harry no matter if they are from Devon or Birmingham.
Personally I make no distinction on local people no matter how long they have lived here, but they do have to live at least in the area to be local. We all entitled to our opinions .. however I do find some of yours totally irrelevant to the issue at hand .. but that is just my opinion.
As to the comparision of buying from a supermarket or a local store a lot of people would probably agree with you and as such have the choice to use the local stores, why shouldn't those who choose or can only afford to shop at a supermarket have the same privilege.
Have you actually read the comment I posted above, I'll re-cap for you. 50%, thats approx 5,000 people (that doesn't include those in the outlying villages etc) who live in Ledbury DO NOT use the town for their weekly shopping .. don't you wonder how many of them would prefer to shop in a decent sized store here in Ledbury as oppose to travelling to Malvern, Hereford etc.
As to your comment on which construction company would get the work, that applies to any large company building premises. UBL did not use a local company, Amcor did not use a local company and do you think Herefordshire council will use a local company when the building work starts on the 800 new houses .. your point is irrelevant, unless of course you plan to object to the new houses and any other large company building new premises in or around the town.
I have yet to see ANY concrete proof that shops and jobs will go in Ledbury if the store is built, dig a little deeper into the figures LOTS are shouting about and you see that a large number of the towns LOTS say have been hit by an new store ALREADY had another large store but with LOTS and their selective reporting that doesn't seem to matter, or the fact that one of the towns they picked as an example of a town gone down-hill since a store came there, Malvern, has this week had a report in the local media showing that it is actually a vibrant place to shop.
I'll also ask you how many other major UK companies are offering to build something here in Ledbury and offer 200+ jobs to the local people .. answer none!
We have a petition with over 1,000 local names (local as in people who actually live in Herefordshire and/or Ledbury) and that is without ANY media coverage of the petition, in fact LOTS only became aware of the petition over the last few days . .we haven't needed to (as yet) stand on the street and get names from any Tom, Dick or Harry no matter if they are from Devon or Birmingham.
Personally I make no distinction on local people no matter how long they have lived here, but they do have to live at least in the area to be local. We all entitled to our opinions .. however I do find some of yours totally irrelevant to the issue at hand .. but that is just my opinion.
baboo2you
says...
6:47pm Sat 14 Jan 12
Was I rude or did insult you AgainstBS So much of what baboo2you has said almost doesn't need responses to, as anyone with any sense will know that cafe workers DO have time off" anyway?? If your parnter worked in a cafe and it was closed Bank Holiday ..did they protest or enjoy the day off? I was saying it was Boxing Day a Christmas Holiday ? Bank Holiday and staff should have these days off to spend time with the family anyone is entitled to time off and especially at Christmas' true meaning really is to remember Christ's birth and is not one for making money over a few cups of tea or coffee those complaining on cafes not being open..take a flask with you. If (means could and not will) your partnter was working in a local cafe one of many that could close if a hypermarket came... let expand Tesco let them re-organise the shop, Eagers has now gone.. thats one shop, Wellworth it and others could go, with a petrol station there is only so much competition before one closes..who will get the best deal? possibly Jet.. but a supermarket could cut petrol at a loss to get people to shop? supporting the Ledbury. We as individuals are all entitled to our opinions, on the construction of such a site, I was saying will Sainsburys chose a local company to construct the site with local people.. probably not, have you thought of how many local companies do such building work, not just in Ledbury-Hereford too plenty, thats including shopfitters, electricians and plumbers etc "We have a petition with over 1,000 local names" is there a petition supporting the building of this store? who is running this campaign? I have not been approached yet around Ledbury though there was a LOTS group at the bank today even the Mayor was present today. How many people in the LESS petition are from the town? are any tourists on it that might agree to plans on the store?? how many people from the LESS group are from Ledbury, you could be a LOTs supporter and live in Worcester for example..would that count as support, you could be from London but now live in Ledbury would that count. ... this approx 5,000 people does it include children over the age of 5?? where did you get this information..how reliable is its source, and who are these Tom, Dick and Harry are they local? anyway have to cook the pork chop I could buy "just the one" from Gurneys the local butcher in our High Street
AgainstBS
says...
8:41pm Sat 14 Jan 12
Lets take your points one at a time shall we.
1. I did not insult or was rude to you, I made an opinion on the comments, not on you as a person
2. My partner actually works most bank holidays, as anyone who does work in the catering industry will know, bank holidays are classed as normal working days for them. It was not her decision to close the cafe it was the owners and yes she did enjoy the day off, however if she had been required to work she would have, that is part of the job description.
3. Christ was not born on 25th December, there is no known date of Christs birth. The 25th was decided upon because it is also a big pagan fesitival called 'Saturnalia' and the early church wanted to 'convert' as many pagans as possible so by putting Christs birthday on the final day of this pagan festival they already had a huge number of people celebrating.
3. None of the cafes will close, they are primarily there for the tourists/visitors to the town, none of which will be going to Sainsbury's to see historic buildings.
4. Expanding Tesco's would certainly seem like a good idea .. however it falls foul of several of the objections already raised by LOTS eg. Increase of traffic through the town and possible damage to historic buildings.
5. Eagers has gone because they formed a deal with Wetherspoons NOT because of a supermarket. Explain how Wellworth it could close, what do they sell that Sainsbury's could sell cheaper or in fact that the current Tesco's doesn't already sell.
6. Business is about competition, another petrol station is just that competition, and do you know of any other town with a population of approx 10,000 that has only two petrol stations?
7. If you read what I wrote, I actually say we are all entilted to our opinions .. it is your comments I am questioning, not you or your reasons for posting them.
8. Sainsbury's will probably not use a local company, but as pointed out neither did UBL, Amcor or even our own County Council, so I don't understand your point .. it is irrelevant in my opinion.
9. I can assure you there is a very active petition supporting the building of the store and it is being run by the local members of the LESS (Ledbury Supports Sainsbury's) campaign and at the last count it had in excess of 1,000 names on it. We have as yet not been petitioning in the town, that very well may change over the next few weeks.
10. We estimate that 90-95% of the names on the petition are based within a 5 mile radius of Ledbury town, we don't know for sure as yet as many of the forms have still to be collected. There may well be some tourists names on the petition, but are we saying that Ledbury should be catering more for the tourists than its own people .. I certainly hope not.
11. Whether the mayor supports the plans or not doesn't matter, he, as do the rest of the council have a duty to represent the people of Ledbury, if the majority want this store then they should vote in accordance with those wishes.
12. I don't disagree with you, you could live anywhere and be a supporter of either group .. however this issue directly effects the people of Ledbury and the surrounding area. It doesn't effect someone who lives in Devon.
13. It doesn't matter where you orginate from, if you are a Ledbury District member only for 1 month your opinion is still as relevant as someone who has been here for 70 years .. its your home afterall.
14 As of mid-2009 there are 8,100 people aged 16-65+ (http://www.hereford
shire.gov.uk/council
_gov_democracy/counc
il/44003.aspx?lsoaRe
f=E01014036) and as we know any child over 13 will go shopping with friends so we could include them in the figures as well.
15 The "Tom, Dick & Harry" are references to tourists who may sign the against or for petition. In my opinion their name on a petition isn't worth as much as someone who lives in the Ledbury District - I also think, and I may be wrong about this, that when a petition is handed in on a local event it is only the local names that are actually counted.
I really hope you enjoy your "just the one" pork chop brought from Gurneys the local butcher and I am sure you will still be able to buy one after the store is built .. why .. because you choose to and it is those who are loyal to the high street that will keep it vibrant, I mean do LOTS have so little faith in those that use the local shops that they think as soon as the store opens they are all going to start shopping there .. I think not.
1. I did not insult or was rude to you, I made an opinion on the comments, not on you as a person
2. My partner actually works most bank holidays, as anyone who does work in the catering industry will know, bank holidays are classed as normal working days for them. It was not her decision to close the cafe it was the owners and yes she did enjoy the day off, however if she had been required to work she would have, that is part of the job description.
3. Christ was not born on 25th December, there is no known date of Christs birth. The 25th was decided upon because it is also a big pagan fesitival called 'Saturnalia' and the early church wanted to 'convert' as many pagans as possible so by putting Christs birthday on the final day of this pagan festival they already had a huge number of people celebrating.
3. None of the cafes will close, they are primarily there for the tourists/visitors to the town, none of which will be going to Sainsbury's to see historic buildings.
4. Expanding Tesco's would certainly seem like a good idea .. however it falls foul of several of the objections already raised by LOTS eg. Increase of traffic through the town and possible damage to historic buildings.
5. Eagers has gone because they formed a deal with Wetherspoons NOT because of a supermarket. Explain how Wellworth it could close, what do they sell that Sainsbury's could sell cheaper or in fact that the current Tesco's doesn't already sell.
6. Business is about competition, another petrol station is just that competition, and do you know of any other town with a population of approx 10,000 that has only two petrol stations?
7. If you read what I wrote, I actually say we are all entilted to our opinions .. it is your comments I am questioning, not you or your reasons for posting them.
8. Sainsbury's will probably not use a local company, but as pointed out neither did UBL, Amcor or even our own County Council, so I don't understand your point .. it is irrelevant in my opinion.
9. I can assure you there is a very active petition supporting the building of the store and it is being run by the local members of the LESS (Ledbury Supports Sainsbury's) campaign and at the last count it had in excess of 1,000 names on it. We have as yet not been petitioning in the town, that very well may change over the next few weeks.
10. We estimate that 90-95% of the names on the petition are based within a 5 mile radius of Ledbury town, we don't know for sure as yet as many of the forms have still to be collected. There may well be some tourists names on the petition, but are we saying that Ledbury should be catering more for the tourists than its own people .. I certainly hope not.
11. Whether the mayor supports the plans or not doesn't matter, he, as do the rest of the council have a duty to represent the people of Ledbury, if the majority want this store then they should vote in accordance with those wishes.
12. I don't disagree with you, you could live anywhere and be a supporter of either group .. however this issue directly effects the people of Ledbury and the surrounding area. It doesn't effect someone who lives in Devon.
13. It doesn't matter where you orginate from, if you are a Ledbury District member only for 1 month your opinion is still as relevant as someone who has been here for 70 years .. its your home afterall.
14 As of mid-2009 there are 8,100 people aged 16-65+ (http://www.hereford
shire.gov.uk/council
_gov_democracy/counc
il/44003.aspx?lsoaRe
f=E01014036) and as we know any child over 13 will go shopping with friends so we could include them in the figures as well.
15 The "Tom, Dick & Harry" are references to tourists who may sign the against or for petition. In my opinion their name on a petition isn't worth as much as someone who lives in the Ledbury District - I also think, and I may be wrong about this, that when a petition is handed in on a local event it is only the local names that are actually counted.
I really hope you enjoy your "just the one" pork chop brought from Gurneys the local butcher and I am sure you will still be able to buy one after the store is built .. why .. because you choose to and it is those who are loyal to the high street that will keep it vibrant, I mean do LOTS have so little faith in those that use the local shops that they think as soon as the store opens they are all going to start shopping there .. I think not.
AgainstBS
says...
8:41pm Sat 14 Jan 12
Lets take your points one at a time shall we.
1. I did not insult or was rude to you, I made an opinion on the comments, not on you as a person
2. My partner actually works most bank holidays, as anyone who does work in the catering industry will know, bank holidays are classed as normal working days for them. It was not her decision to close the cafe it was the owners and yes she did enjoy the day off, however if she had been required to work she would have, that is part of the job description.
3. Christ was not born on 25th December, there is no known date of Christs birth. The 25th was decided upon because it is also a big pagan fesitival called 'Saturnalia' and the early church wanted to 'convert' as many pagans as possible so by putting Christs birthday on the final day of this pagan festival they already had a huge number of people celebrating.
3. None of the cafes will close, they are primarily there for the tourists/visitors to the town, none of which will be going to Sainsbury's to see historic buildings.
4. Expanding Tesco's would certainly seem like a good idea .. however it falls foul of several of the objections already raised by LOTS eg. Increase of traffic through the town and possible damage to historic buildings.
5. Eagers has gone because they formed a deal with Wetherspoons NOT because of a supermarket. Explain how Wellworth it could close, what do they sell that Sainsbury's could sell cheaper or in fact that the current Tesco's doesn't already sell.
6. Business is about competition, another petrol station is just that competition, and do you know of any other town with a population of approx 10,000 that has only two petrol stations?
7. If you read what I wrote, I actually say we are all entilted to our opinions .. it is your comments I am questioning, not you or your reasons for posting them.
8. Sainsbury's will probably not use a local company, but as pointed out neither did UBL, Amcor or even our own County Council, so I don't understand your point .. it is irrelevant in my opinion.
9. I can assure you there is a very active petition supporting the building of the store and it is being run by the local members of the LESS (Ledbury Supports Sainsbury's) campaign and at the last count it had in excess of 1,000 names on it. We have as yet not been petitioning in the town, that very well may change over the next few weeks.
10. We estimate that 90-95% of the names on the petition are based within a 5 mile radius of Ledbury town, we don't know for sure as yet as many of the forms have still to be collected. There may well be some tourists names on the petition, but are we saying that Ledbury should be catering more for the tourists than its own people .. I certainly hope not.
11. Whether the mayor supports the plans or not doesn't matter, he, as do the rest of the council have a duty to represent the people of Ledbury, if the majority want this store then they should vote in accordance with those wishes.
12. I don't disagree with you, you could live anywhere and be a supporter of either group .. however this issue directly effects the people of Ledbury and the surrounding area. It doesn't effect someone who lives in Devon.
13. It doesn't matter where you orginate from, if you are a Ledbury District member only for 1 month your opinion is still as relevant as someone who has been here for 70 years .. its your home afterall.
14 As of mid-2009 there are 8,100 people aged 16-65+ (http://www.hereford
shire.gov.uk/council
_gov_democracy/counc
il/44003.aspx?lsoaRe
f=E01014036) and as we know any child over 13 will go shopping with friends so we could include them in the figures as well.
15 The "Tom, Dick & Harry" are references to tourists who may sign the against or for petition. In my opinion their name on a petition isn't worth as much as someone who lives in the Ledbury District - I also think, and I may be wrong about this, that when a petition is handed in on a local event it is only the local names that are actually counted.
I really hope you enjoy your "just the one" pork chop brought from Gurneys the local butcher and I am sure you will still be able to buy one after the store is built .. why .. because you choose to and it is those who are loyal to the high street that will keep it vibrant, I mean do LOTS have so little faith in those that use the local shops that they think as soon as the store opens they are all going to start shopping there .. I think not.
1. I did not insult or was rude to you, I made an opinion on the comments, not on you as a person
2. My partner actually works most bank holidays, as anyone who does work in the catering industry will know, bank holidays are classed as normal working days for them. It was not her decision to close the cafe it was the owners and yes she did enjoy the day off, however if she had been required to work she would have, that is part of the job description.
3. Christ was not born on 25th December, there is no known date of Christs birth. The 25th was decided upon because it is also a big pagan fesitival called 'Saturnalia' and the early church wanted to 'convert' as many pagans as possible so by putting Christs birthday on the final day of this pagan festival they already had a huge number of people celebrating.
3. None of the cafes will close, they are primarily there for the tourists/visitors to the town, none of which will be going to Sainsbury's to see historic buildings.
4. Expanding Tesco's would certainly seem like a good idea .. however it falls foul of several of the objections already raised by LOTS eg. Increase of traffic through the town and possible damage to historic buildings.
5. Eagers has gone because they formed a deal with Wetherspoons NOT because of a supermarket. Explain how Wellworth it could close, what do they sell that Sainsbury's could sell cheaper or in fact that the current Tesco's doesn't already sell.
6. Business is about competition, another petrol station is just that competition, and do you know of any other town with a population of approx 10,000 that has only two petrol stations?
7. If you read what I wrote, I actually say we are all entilted to our opinions .. it is your comments I am questioning, not you or your reasons for posting them.
8. Sainsbury's will probably not use a local company, but as pointed out neither did UBL, Amcor or even our own County Council, so I don't understand your point .. it is irrelevant in my opinion.
9. I can assure you there is a very active petition supporting the building of the store and it is being run by the local members of the LESS (Ledbury Supports Sainsbury's) campaign and at the last count it had in excess of 1,000 names on it. We have as yet not been petitioning in the town, that very well may change over the next few weeks.
10. We estimate that 90-95% of the names on the petition are based within a 5 mile radius of Ledbury town, we don't know for sure as yet as many of the forms have still to be collected. There may well be some tourists names on the petition, but are we saying that Ledbury should be catering more for the tourists than its own people .. I certainly hope not.
11. Whether the mayor supports the plans or not doesn't matter, he, as do the rest of the council have a duty to represent the people of Ledbury, if the majority want this store then they should vote in accordance with those wishes.
12. I don't disagree with you, you could live anywhere and be a supporter of either group .. however this issue directly effects the people of Ledbury and the surrounding area. It doesn't effect someone who lives in Devon.
13. It doesn't matter where you orginate from, if you are a Ledbury District member only for 1 month your opinion is still as relevant as someone who has been here for 70 years .. its your home afterall.
14 As of mid-2009 there are 8,100 people aged 16-65+ (http://www.hereford
shire.gov.uk/council
_gov_democracy/counc
il/44003.aspx?lsoaRe
f=E01014036) and as we know any child over 13 will go shopping with friends so we could include them in the figures as well.
15 The "Tom, Dick & Harry" are references to tourists who may sign the against or for petition. In my opinion their name on a petition isn't worth as much as someone who lives in the Ledbury District - I also think, and I may be wrong about this, that when a petition is handed in on a local event it is only the local names that are actually counted.
I really hope you enjoy your "just the one" pork chop brought from Gurneys the local butcher and I am sure you will still be able to buy one after the store is built .. why .. because you choose to and it is those who are loyal to the high street that will keep it vibrant, I mean do LOTS have so little faith in those that use the local shops that they think as soon as the store opens they are all going to start shopping there .. I think not.
Terri1963
says...
10:24pm Sat 14 Jan 12
I for one am tired of all the ifs & maybe brigade trying to frighten residents of Ledbury into believing the scaremongering propaganda they spout about what Could happen, what might be the result, Malvern & Ross are ghost towns, this is nonsense & Lots & Saveledbury know it but it obviously suits ur say no to anything campaign to push this rubbish anyway I guess, as is your right if you choose but I really wish you would just stick to the facts as many many residents of Ledbury want & need this shopping option these jobs & Ledbury needs this investment, now there are some facts!
shaun e
says...
11:53pm Sat 14 Jan 12
Im 100% behind Sainsburys, i believe it will keep shoppers in the town,currently i have to travel to Malvern/Gloucester/R
oss etc to shop as the High Street is simply inadequate or overpriced. The vast majority of Ledbury residents i have spoken to are in favour of the store as are the employees of Ledbury's biggest employer where i currently work.
oss etc to shop as the High Street is simply inadequate or overpriced. The vast majority of Ledbury residents i have spoken to are in favour of the store as are the employees of Ledbury's biggest employer where i currently work.
psychiatrist
says...
12:40pm Sun 15 Jan 12
I'm not sure that the many references to opinions are any more than that. But opinions are not facts.
However
I would love to sign this petition. Can someone tell me how I can sign please.
However
I would love to sign this petition. Can someone tell me how I can sign please.
Andrew Warmington
says...
2:07pm Sun 15 Jan 12
Where did this alleged fact that over 50% of Ledbury people go elsewhere to do their weekly shop come from? Simply repeating something over and over doesn't make it true and, even leaving aside the fact that not everyone makes a big 'weekly shop', it sounds highly unlikely.
LittleMsLabour
says...
6:16pm Sun 15 Jan 12
Hurrah for common sense prevailing! I am so pleased to see support for a necessary addition to Ledbury finally being given the media space it deserves.
I have been a resident ALL MY LIFE and in the last 12 months have witnessed people who haven't tell me what Ledbury needs and I must say I have received very personal attacks when I have spoken my mind. Ledbury is one of the few market towns in the area that is not only surviving but thriving and if it is to continue to welcome new families to the area then it has to provide for them. The supermarkets Ledbury currently has are inadequate for the towns population now let alone when 800 new homes are going to be built. Anyone who has tried to shop during The Big Chill weekend will tell you that, though I suppose those against a supermarket would have that stopped too! We live in a democracy and I will not have a town council who are largely co-opted and therefore not elected tell me I can go elsewhere for my shop!
Here's to Sainsbury's and here's to a Ledbury with a future!
I have been a resident ALL MY LIFE and in the last 12 months have witnessed people who haven't tell me what Ledbury needs and I must say I have received very personal attacks when I have spoken my mind. Ledbury is one of the few market towns in the area that is not only surviving but thriving and if it is to continue to welcome new families to the area then it has to provide for them. The supermarkets Ledbury currently has are inadequate for the towns population now let alone when 800 new homes are going to be built. Anyone who has tried to shop during The Big Chill weekend will tell you that, though I suppose those against a supermarket would have that stopped too! We live in a democracy and I will not have a town council who are largely co-opted and therefore not elected tell me I can go elsewhere for my shop!
Here's to Sainsbury's and here's to a Ledbury with a future!
LedburyTomorrow
says...
6:34pm Sun 15 Jan 12
I've tried a number of times to shop on Ledbury High Street but they've let me down every time. I am a busy mother who works, therefore I don't have the luxury our shopkeepers have of deciding I'll shut at 16:00. Most shops in ledbury pick and choose their hours. Sure they say 18:00 on the door but are they ever open at that time? NO!!! I overheard a woman in one said shop the other day ask when the lady closed....her response? "Well I say 17:30 but I'll shut at 17:00 tonight". They can probably afford to do this as everything in the High Street is overpriced! Ledbury it would appear has become elitist. Anyone who earns minimum wage isn't welcome on the High Street, they want only the rich! Is it little wonder then that we're sick and fed up of it and we want a place that's open longer hours, open weekends and bank holidays, and at an affordable price?! Currently I shop elsewhere because of this. In Malvern I stop in Malvern itself on the way to the retail park and spend my money there where apparently it is good enough! Ledbury loses out! A large supermarket has been a long time coming and I fully lend my support.
psychiatrist
says...
8:46pm Sun 15 Jan 12
I have asked earlier, can someone tell me how I can sign the petition for Sainsburys
please.
Looks like most people here are in favour of Sainsburys to bring Ledbury into the 21st century.
please.
Looks like most people here are in favour of Sainsburys to bring Ledbury into the 21st century.
AgainstBS
says...
8:54pm Sun 15 Jan 12
psychiatrist - There will be a group from LESS in Ledbury town on Saturday 21st from 9.30am
psychiatrist
says...
8:58pm Sun 15 Jan 12
againstbs - ah thanks for that
AgainstBS
says...
9:02pm Sun 15 Jan 12
Mr Warmington - The figure is a simple calculation that anyone can do, if you just take the time to research the market share of both Tesco's and Co-Op you will find it amounts to approx 48% .. given a possible 2% varience we will be generous and say that the market share of both is 50% (BTW these figures also include shopping in the high street), that leaves a market void of around 50% or approx 5,000 people who do not do their weekly shopping in Ledbury at all .. I know you will try to discredit this, but that is to be expected.
AgainstBS
says...
9:06pm Sun 15 Jan 12
and Mr Warmington, to be honest the article has little to do with most of the comments above .. I would suggest that LOTS are a little taken-a-back by the Ledbury people's response to the Sainsbury's application .. The silent majority won't stay silent anymore.
Ledlass
says...
7:53am Mon 16 Jan 12
Simply repeating something over and over doesn't make it true
Blimey lots would do well to remember this, and stop trying to fill Ledbury people with the same tireless rubbish they keep printing.
Blimey lots would do well to remember this, and stop trying to fill Ledbury people with the same tireless rubbish they keep printing.
Andrew Warmington
says...
10:27am Mon 16 Jan 12
Chapter and verse, please, AgainstBS - I'll avoid being sidetracked as to who you are, obvious though it is. Where is the research saying that Tesco and Co-Op, including the rest of the High Street, have only 48% of the market - meaning, I assume the total grocery spend of Ledbury residents? Where do you get that from? I have seen plenty of stats of varying quality cited during this campaign but never this one.
I'm not taken aback. I never had any problem in believing that a fair few people would want an OOTS. After all, we've had 30 years of demented consumerism rammed down our throats to incline us that way. However, that doesn't equate to a majority. My estimate of the view of people in Ledbury about an OOTS is about 2:1 against, same as it always was.
The majority against Tesco earlier was inflated by the pro campaign being utterly disorganised. Inevitably, not least thanks to the help of a PR company who has even won awards for stirring up pro-superstore campaigns, you have got better at it. Hence, among other things, this constant use of the FACT (in BIG SHOUTY CAPITALS) of 220 new jobs, which palpably isn't a FACT at all.
I'm not taken aback. I never had any problem in believing that a fair few people would want an OOTS. After all, we've had 30 years of demented consumerism rammed down our throats to incline us that way. However, that doesn't equate to a majority. My estimate of the view of people in Ledbury about an OOTS is about 2:1 against, same as it always was.
The majority against Tesco earlier was inflated by the pro campaign being utterly disorganised. Inevitably, not least thanks to the help of a PR company who has even won awards for stirring up pro-superstore campaigns, you have got better at it. Hence, among other things, this constant use of the FACT (in BIG SHOUTY CAPITALS) of 220 new jobs, which palpably isn't a FACT at all.
psychiatrist
says...
12:19pm Mon 16 Jan 12
you'll have to forgive me maybe i should be called i need a pyschiatrist but will the petition be out on Saturday in the town? It seems the more people can sign it the better.
Ledlass
says...
1:09pm Mon 16 Jan 12
May I ask Mr Warmington, where is your FACT at there not being that many jobs created? Or do you just deal with maybe's, probably, and I think so because I shout the loudest and I think I'm right so therefore I am.
So lets just agree to disagree. Yes psychiatrist, LESS will be in town on Saturday, and I'm sure you won't be able to miss those who are from LESS and those from lots. Yes agreed, the more that sign the better it is. So I'm sure they will welcome your signature.
So lets just agree to disagree. Yes psychiatrist, LESS will be in town on Saturday, and I'm sure you won't be able to miss those who are from LESS and those from lots. Yes agreed, the more that sign the better it is. So I'm sure they will welcome your signature.
psychiatrist
says...
2:34pm Mon 16 Jan 12
just a thought. when is thuis new Sainsburies going to be ready, does anybody know.
psychiatrist
says...
2:34pm Mon 16 Jan 12
just a thought. when is thuis new Sainsburies going to be ready, does anybody know.
Andrew Warmington
says...
2:38pm Mon 16 Jan 12
The thing is, AgainstBS, neither side can deal in FACT as such, because we are talking about something that hasn't happened yet. I don't know how many jobs there would be at the Sainsbury's if it happened. Neither do you. Neither do they, for that matter. Because it isn't a FACT yet. The true number will only be known - assuming they disclose it! - if and when the store opens, by which time it will be game over anyway.
So we - both of us - can only look at in terms of these 'ifs, buts and maybes' that you repeatedly denounce (mainly because Gough Bailey Wright told you to), by extrapolating from similar situations elsewhere to find what might happen here. And what we find is that over and over again, superstores exaggerate the number by taking best case scenarios, overestimating potential turnover or downright lying, safe in the knowledge that nothing much will happen to them even when they are caught lying.
For someone who claims to be against BS, you swallow corporate BS readily enough. And you still haven't answered my question about where the 48% turnover figure comes from which, if (sorry, there I go again) true, would actually back up your argument, at least to some degree.
So we - both of us - can only look at in terms of these 'ifs, buts and maybes' that you repeatedly denounce (mainly because Gough Bailey Wright told you to), by extrapolating from similar situations elsewhere to find what might happen here. And what we find is that over and over again, superstores exaggerate the number by taking best case scenarios, overestimating potential turnover or downright lying, safe in the knowledge that nothing much will happen to them even when they are caught lying.
For someone who claims to be against BS, you swallow corporate BS readily enough. And you still haven't answered my question about where the 48% turnover figure comes from which, if (sorry, there I go again) true, would actually back up your argument, at least to some degree.
AgainstBS
says...
3:33pm Mon 16 Jan 12
1. It really amazes me that just because LESS have become more organised it has to be because an outside influence has caused it .. pretty obvious that LOTS feel that the LESS members don't have a brain between them, pretty much as they treat anyone who doesn't agree with them. Of course the question could also be asked of LOTS where their leadership is coming from - Tescolopy maybe?
2. To be honest I really don't give two figs who you think I am or not .. its irrelevant.
3. Problem is Mr. Warmington, I can say without a shadow of a doubt, that Sainsbury's will in FACT create jobs .. regardless of how many there are, something LOTS cannnot say about one single thing they have procrastinated about and we always state UPTO 200+ jobs. For a LOTS member to talk about overestimating or downright lying is a real kettle calling the pot black. You, as in LOTS, have told us on many occasions how bad it is in towns like Malvern and yet the local paper reports on how well the shop keepers say Malvern is doing .. is that a lie on LOTS's part. You have overestimated your support on the Sainsbury's application completely, and underestimated the level of support for LESS.
4. Figures come from The Guardian Newspaper, showing market share of the main Supermarkets (Supplied by Reuters) upto 7th August 2011 Tesco's showed 30.5% (rounded to 31%), Co-Op showed 6.9%(rounded to 7%) total ~38%, allowance for shopping in other outlets (including independants) ~12% = 50% - but of course I expect you to find some sort of fault with this.
I don't swallow any BS Mr. Warmington, which is why I and many others can see straight through the BS that LOTS try to force down our throats and I for one would love to see your facts to back up your arguement, and I mean facts relating to Ledbury not hot lifted from Tescolopy.
2. To be honest I really don't give two figs who you think I am or not .. its irrelevant.
3. Problem is Mr. Warmington, I can say without a shadow of a doubt, that Sainsbury's will in FACT create jobs .. regardless of how many there are, something LOTS cannnot say about one single thing they have procrastinated about and we always state UPTO 200+ jobs. For a LOTS member to talk about overestimating or downright lying is a real kettle calling the pot black. You, as in LOTS, have told us on many occasions how bad it is in towns like Malvern and yet the local paper reports on how well the shop keepers say Malvern is doing .. is that a lie on LOTS's part. You have overestimated your support on the Sainsbury's application completely, and underestimated the level of support for LESS.
4. Figures come from The Guardian Newspaper, showing market share of the main Supermarkets (Supplied by Reuters) upto 7th August 2011 Tesco's showed 30.5% (rounded to 31%), Co-Op showed 6.9%(rounded to 7%) total ~38%, allowance for shopping in other outlets (including independants) ~12% = 50% - but of course I expect you to find some sort of fault with this.
I don't swallow any BS Mr. Warmington, which is why I and many others can see straight through the BS that LOTS try to force down our throats and I for one would love to see your facts to back up your arguement, and I mean facts relating to Ledbury not hot lifted from Tescolopy.
Andrew Warmington
says...
5:23pm Mon 16 Jan 12
1 and 2. OK, then, cut to the chase. Please answer this very simple Yes/No question, as you have stated that you are a member of LESS. Have LESS had any contact with either Sainsbury's or Gough Bailey Wright in connection your campaign? Leaving aside the fact that very few of the evidence that LOTS have used here or elsewhere are sourced from Tescopoly, there's also quite obviously a difference between drawing from a voluntary campaigning body like Tescopoly and a PR-for-hire like Gough Bailey Wright. And you don't need half a brain to see that.
3. Of course a Sainsbury's OOTS would create some jobs. Nobody ever denied that and I find it hard to believe that you are seriously implying they did. The pertinent questions are first, will they actually create the number of jobs that they claim and, second, will they increase the total number of jobs in Ledbury because obviously some jobs will be destroyed? The evidence we have put forward has been to argue 'No' to both. I'm ot quite sure I understand the stream of consciousness about Malvern. Some of your supporters think Malvern to be thriving despite (because of?) the retail park and/or the Waitrose, some of us think it is quiet for the same reason. To the best of my recall, no-one has put forward stats either way, so it is all down to subjective views, as I said quite clearly on the Portal way back when.
4. I am indeed going to find fault with this one. It is a fault so glaring that you could drive a train through it. Your figures on market share from Reuters in the Guardian quite obviously relate to national market share, not Ledbury or even Herefordshire. Do you really think that if Tesco has 31% share nationally and the Co-Op 7%, that must mean that the shares are the same everywhere and therefore the rest of the shopping done by Ledbury residents is done at the other supermarkets in direct proportion to the national average? Is it not obvious that, with no Asda, Morrisons or Sainsbury in Ledbury, Tesco's and the Co-Op's market shares are bound to be higher here than across the country? I really am finding it hard to believe that I have to point this out.
3. Of course a Sainsbury's OOTS would create some jobs. Nobody ever denied that and I find it hard to believe that you are seriously implying they did. The pertinent questions are first, will they actually create the number of jobs that they claim and, second, will they increase the total number of jobs in Ledbury because obviously some jobs will be destroyed? The evidence we have put forward has been to argue 'No' to both. I'm ot quite sure I understand the stream of consciousness about Malvern. Some of your supporters think Malvern to be thriving despite (because of?) the retail park and/or the Waitrose, some of us think it is quiet for the same reason. To the best of my recall, no-one has put forward stats either way, so it is all down to subjective views, as I said quite clearly on the Portal way back when.
4. I am indeed going to find fault with this one. It is a fault so glaring that you could drive a train through it. Your figures on market share from Reuters in the Guardian quite obviously relate to national market share, not Ledbury or even Herefordshire. Do you really think that if Tesco has 31% share nationally and the Co-Op 7%, that must mean that the shares are the same everywhere and therefore the rest of the shopping done by Ledbury residents is done at the other supermarkets in direct proportion to the national average? Is it not obvious that, with no Asda, Morrisons or Sainsbury in Ledbury, Tesco's and the Co-Op's market shares are bound to be higher here than across the country? I really am finding it hard to believe that I have to point this out.
AgainstBS
says...
6:02pm Mon 16 Jan 12
1 & 2. Same question goes to you .. Tescopoly is as much a PR team as any other private PR company, although you will paint them as some sort of "knights in shining armour" saving the downtrodden.
3. That is your take on the jobs item, ours is somewhat different. We believe that no jobs will be lost due to the store and no matter what spiel you produce in comparisons with other towns its not about Ledbury. I can't believe you don't believe that a shop owner who actually runs a shop in Malvern, have you become so reliant on figures that you are divorced from the actual people.
4. So Herefordshire & Ledbury are not part of the UK then and as such are not comparable to the market share of the UK .. If you read what was written you will see that all the figures are stated as approx (~) and an allowance of ~12% is included for difference of Ledbury compared to the rest of the UK including shopping at independants.
Of course this matters not to you, your main 'job' for LOTS is to spend time trying to dis-credit anything anybody says that LOTS don't agree with, as is plain from almost every post you have posted.
Look at the headline again "Support for Ledbury supermarket plan tops 1,000" and thats just the start.
3. That is your take on the jobs item, ours is somewhat different. We believe that no jobs will be lost due to the store and no matter what spiel you produce in comparisons with other towns its not about Ledbury. I can't believe you don't believe that a shop owner who actually runs a shop in Malvern, have you become so reliant on figures that you are divorced from the actual people.
4. So Herefordshire & Ledbury are not part of the UK then and as such are not comparable to the market share of the UK .. If you read what was written you will see that all the figures are stated as approx (~) and an allowance of ~12% is included for difference of Ledbury compared to the rest of the UK including shopping at independants.
Of course this matters not to you, your main 'job' for LOTS is to spend time trying to dis-credit anything anybody says that LOTS don't agree with, as is plain from almost every post you have posted.
Look at the headline again "Support for Ledbury supermarket plan tops 1,000" and thats just the start.
baboo2you
says...
8:05pm Mon 16 Jan 12
AgainstBS . I have heard from a reliable source that not everything you hear or read can be true. I mean to your comment/opinion about Tom, Dick and Harry (..you just need another 2 and a Dog and you have the Famous Five )"In my opinion their name on a petition isn't worth as much as someone who lives in the Ledbury District" so does that mean if a person lived in for example Worcester Total distance: 18.29 miles or even Gloucester there vote would not count?? I am keeping it short as you obviously have far much time on your hands as a response from you is nothing short of an autobiography .. though a little link for you:
http://www.thisismon
ey.co.uk/money/cars/
article-2053699/Deat
h-petrol-station-For
ecourts-half-1990s-b
oom-hit-record-low.h
tml
This information you have on Eagers is it true?? if you when will it happen..as matter of interest
http://www.thisismon
ey.co.uk/money/cars/
article-2053699/Deat
h-petrol-station-For
ecourts-half-1990s-b
oom-hit-record-low.h
tml
This information you have on Eagers is it true?? if you when will it happen..as matter of interest
baboo2you
says...
8:12pm Mon 16 Jan 12
AgainstBS . I have heard from a reliable source that not everything you hear or read can be true. I mean to your comment/opinion about Tom, Dick and Harry (..you just need another 2 and a Dog and you have the Famous Five )"In my opinion their name on a petition isn't worth as much as someone who lives in the Ledbury District" so does that mean if a person lived in for example Worcester Total distance: 18.29 miles or even Gloucester there vote would not count?? I am keeping it short as you obviously have far much time on your hands as a response from you is nothing short of an autobiography .. though a little link for you:
http://www.thisismon
ey.co.uk/money/cars/
article-2053699/Deat
h-petrol-station-For
ecourts-half-1990s-b
oom-hit-record-low.h
tml
This information you have on Eagers is it true?? if you when will it happen..as matter of interest
http://www.thisismon
ey.co.uk/money/cars/
article-2053699/Deat
h-petrol-station-For
ecourts-half-1990s-b
oom-hit-record-low.h
tml
This information you have on Eagers is it true?? if you when will it happen..as matter of interest
AgainstBS
says...
11:24pm Mon 16 Jan 12
baboo2you - Of course not everything you read is true .. hence the majority knowing that LOTS publish mostly spin and scare tactics. In my personal opinion only those who live within the effected area should have their votes/comments counted .. I mean if you wanted to build an extension you wouldn't be best pleased if someone from Gloucester objected would you.
Looked and read the details on the link you posted, interesting reading, but I don't really see the problem .. people are changing the way they shop, they want to be able to all their shopping in one go, as the report says more and more people no longer shop on a daily, or weekly basis .. they do a monthly shop. I would add a prediction that in years to come even the supermarkets will become less and less used as people start to use internet shopping with delivery more and more.
I am sorry you feel my replies are too long, but I only wish to respond as fully as possible, I wouldn't want certain people to accuse me of "cherry picking" or "selective reporting"
As to the Eagers item, It is something I have heard from a pretty reliable source, who I must say has been correct on numerous occasions before, as to concrete proof . .then I would have to say no, not yet.
Looked and read the details on the link you posted, interesting reading, but I don't really see the problem .. people are changing the way they shop, they want to be able to all their shopping in one go, as the report says more and more people no longer shop on a daily, or weekly basis .. they do a monthly shop. I would add a prediction that in years to come even the supermarkets will become less and less used as people start to use internet shopping with delivery more and more.
I am sorry you feel my replies are too long, but I only wish to respond as fully as possible, I wouldn't want certain people to accuse me of "cherry picking" or "selective reporting"
As to the Eagers item, It is something I have heard from a pretty reliable source, who I must say has been correct on numerous occasions before, as to concrete proof . .then I would have to say no, not yet.
Terri1963
says...
2:17am Tue 17 Jan 12
LOTS seem a tad rattled by the amount of support LESS have got & seem to want to try & shout down anything that is said that doesn't match their cause. It's almost as if you were given orders to get on here & attack anything posted by LESS, although you do seem to like to Attack AgainstBS more.
If as mentioned & thanks for letting us know how far away it is, Worcester residents are not signing Ledbury Petitions, I suggest that New Zealand Cardiff, USA etc etc etc should not be used in the Opposers petition & form filling or any other LOTS supporters from sround the Country & World. Will that happen I doubt it!
Ledbury people & surrounding areas within close proximity etc should decide on Ledbury issues for sure, if only this were the case with your Lots campaigne!
FACT Sainsburys will definitely create
200+ much needed jobs, a store like this will certainly know beforehand how many staff it will require, this is not a new Retailer after all , Sainsburys have been around for a while, so SHOULD know.
The trouble is with the LOTS campaigne is its all about pouring doom, gloom & desperation onto everyone in your sights, with tales of ghost towns sucked dry by big Supermarket chains with no future for anyone, how depressing does this sound. Malvern & Ross are ghost tows struggling with A Supermarket, truth is though these towns aren't as you say & people read this & can see for themselves the truth!
We are in 2012, constantly being threatened by a crippling market & the constant threat of a recession, hence why Ledbury people actually want to hear that they have hope of getting work, that their children can have a chance of getting work too & the thought of growth in their town & investment too, with prospects a future to look forward to is great & this is the way forward for Ledbury, to move with the times & offer a future for its thousands of residents, young, old & families alike, people need jobs & need to buy food at affordable prices FACT Also!
Which picture looks better do you think & their is no need for any rediculous piffle either, it's just a simple FACT!
If as mentioned & thanks for letting us know how far away it is, Worcester residents are not signing Ledbury Petitions, I suggest that New Zealand Cardiff, USA etc etc etc should not be used in the Opposers petition & form filling or any other LOTS supporters from sround the Country & World. Will that happen I doubt it!
Ledbury people & surrounding areas within close proximity etc should decide on Ledbury issues for sure, if only this were the case with your Lots campaigne!
FACT Sainsburys will definitely create
200+ much needed jobs, a store like this will certainly know beforehand how many staff it will require, this is not a new Retailer after all , Sainsburys have been around for a while, so SHOULD know.
The trouble is with the LOTS campaigne is its all about pouring doom, gloom & desperation onto everyone in your sights, with tales of ghost towns sucked dry by big Supermarket chains with no future for anyone, how depressing does this sound. Malvern & Ross are ghost tows struggling with A Supermarket, truth is though these towns aren't as you say & people read this & can see for themselves the truth!
We are in 2012, constantly being threatened by a crippling market & the constant threat of a recession, hence why Ledbury people actually want to hear that they have hope of getting work, that their children can have a chance of getting work too & the thought of growth in their town & investment too, with prospects a future to look forward to is great & this is the way forward for Ledbury, to move with the times & offer a future for its thousands of residents, young, old & families alike, people need jobs & need to buy food at affordable prices FACT Also!
Which picture looks better do you think & their is no need for any rediculous piffle either, it's just a simple FACT!
Andrew Warmington
says...
9:21am Tue 17 Jan 12
AgainstBS: Just in case you really don't get it, the Reuters figures are national market shares for the various supermarket chains. Obviously this will vary considerably from place to place, depending on which is present there, e.g. Morrisons have (I think) 13% nationally but will have considerably more in Ross, where it is the largest store present. And so on and so on.
The two stores currently in Ledbury, Tesco and Co-Op, have a combined national market share of about 38%. From that, you have leapt to the conclusion that it must be about the same in Ledbury and therefore well over half of Ledbury people do their food shopping outside Ledbury. This conclusion is so wilfully stupid that no further comment is needed.
The two stores currently in Ledbury, Tesco and Co-Op, have a combined national market share of about 38%. From that, you have leapt to the conclusion that it must be about the same in Ledbury and therefore well over half of Ledbury people do their food shopping outside Ledbury. This conclusion is so wilfully stupid that no further comment is needed.
AgainstBS
says...
10:11am Tue 17 Jan 12
"The two stores currently in Ledbury, Tesco and Co-Op, have a combined national market share of about 38%. From that, you have leapt to the conclusion that it must be about the same in Ledbury"
Sigh .. As an editor you really should read things properly, the figures quoted above are all stated as approximate, much like the figures and facts LOTS spout out everyday .. 7,500 cars a day, 276 job losses, shops closing .. oh woe is me, the sky is falling .. don't they call that sensationalist reporting.
What it comes down to is LOTS are against Sainsbury's per se, as can been seen by the posts on FB where as LESS are in support of Sainsbury's per se, so why don't we just agree to disagree.
Sigh .. As an editor you really should read things properly, the figures quoted above are all stated as approximate, much like the figures and facts LOTS spout out everyday .. 7,500 cars a day, 276 job losses, shops closing .. oh woe is me, the sky is falling .. don't they call that sensationalist reporting.
What it comes down to is LOTS are against Sainsbury's per se, as can been seen by the posts on FB where as LESS are in support of Sainsbury's per se, so why don't we just agree to disagree.
Andrew Warmington
says...
11:18am Tue 17 Jan 12
Sigh all you like, my friend, you did make a palpably incorrect and ridiculous inference based on twisted statistics and saying that the opposition do the same (even if true, which it ain't) is just muddying the waters and changes mothing.
For the record, LOTS are against any out-of-town superstore in Ledbury. That's what the name means. We are focusing on Sainsbury's now because their application is current, whereas Tesco's isn't.
I can certainly agree to disagree with you, but where you make assertions like 'More than half of Ledbury residents do their shopping outside Ledbury' based on assumptions that you know or should know to be false, expect to have them argued with.
For the record, LOTS are against any out-of-town superstore in Ledbury. That's what the name means. We are focusing on Sainsbury's now because their application is current, whereas Tesco's isn't.
I can certainly agree to disagree with you, but where you make assertions like 'More than half of Ledbury residents do their shopping outside Ledbury' based on assumptions that you know or should know to be false, expect to have them argued with.
LOOTS supporter
says...
1:09pm Tue 17 Jan 12
think it is a good thing that LESS now feel happier that they have a louder voice in the community because of their petition etc., but I continue to object to the size and more importantly, the position of the Sainsburys Superstore. If and when we need extra supermarket space, I would not object to the development of the Orchard lane site for a larger Tesco, which does not seem to have been considered sufficiently. The evidence is available on www.saveledbury.com to show the consequences of a plan for an Out of Town Superstore being given the go-ahead near a town like Ledbury with its vibrant High Street. My experience when gathering support for Lots in Ledbury Town is that the body of opinion is just as solid as it was during the Tesco campaign.
LOOTS supporter
says...
1:10pm Tue 17 Jan 12
think it is a good thing that LESS now feel happier that they have a louder voice in the community because of their petition etc., but I continue to object to the size and more importantly, the position of the Sainsburys Superstore. If and when we need extra supermarket space, I would not object to the development of the Orchard lane site for a larger Tesco, which does not seem to have been considered sufficiently. The evidence is available on www.saveledbury.com to show the consequences of a plan for an Out of Town Superstore being given the go-ahead near a town like Ledbury with its vibrant High Street. My experience when gathering support for Lots in Ledbury Town is that the body of opinion is just as solid as it was during the Tesco campaign.
AgainstBS
says...
6:26pm Tue 17 Jan 12
I thought LOTS stood for Ledbury Opposes Tescos Supermarket, then the extra 'O' was added to make it LOOTS - Ledbury Opposes Out Of Town Supermarkets.
Just a question, nothing more.
To LOOTS Supporter, I have no doubt that the level of support for LO(O)TS is as solid as it was against Tesco's, however the support for Sainsbury's is a whole lot larger than LOTS thought it would be. I suppose what it will come down to is if the Town Council & Herefordshire Planning will listen to public opinion or not. LOTS say they have the majority of public opinion as do LESS.
Just a question, nothing more.
To LOOTS Supporter, I have no doubt that the level of support for LO(O)TS is as solid as it was against Tesco's, however the support for Sainsbury's is a whole lot larger than LOTS thought it would be. I suppose what it will come down to is if the Town Council & Herefordshire Planning will listen to public opinion or not. LOTS say they have the majority of public opinion as do LESS.
LOOTS supporter
says...
7:42pm Tue 17 Jan 12
Loots should be Lots but I can not change it now. I think It would be better if we all used our own names..but we don't !
Yes you are correct, Sainsburys does seem to be more popular than Tesco and I think most people in LOTS anticipated that would be the case although if we are looking at affordability, the prices at a supermarket like Aldi would really be cheaper than either Tesco or Sainsburys. I believe that the outcome would be similar which ever supermarket was built. And as I understand it, the planning department in Hereford rather than the Town Council make the final decision on planning grounds although public opinion must have an impact.
Yes you are correct, Sainsburys does seem to be more popular than Tesco and I think most people in LOTS anticipated that would be the case although if we are looking at affordability, the prices at a supermarket like Aldi would really be cheaper than either Tesco or Sainsburys. I believe that the outcome would be similar which ever supermarket was built. And as I understand it, the planning department in Hereford rather than the Town Council make the final decision on planning grounds although public opinion must have an impact.
chrissy6
says...
7:57pm Tue 17 Jan 12
Seams the younger generations and families want and would benefit from sainsburys, I for one fully support LESS, and would state that Less has become more organised due to the fact Locals are fed up with being told whats best for our town -hence speaking out and supporting less.. copy and paste,copy and paste!!
LOOTS supporter
says...
8:15am Wed 18 Jan 12
I believe that the evidence is overwhelming that large superstores on the edge of market towns change the character of that town, closing down High Street shops.
I understand that many people do not mind the High Street shops disappearing because they like shopping in modern buildings that are replicated all over the country. But we who do not want Ledbury to be the same as any other town, would loose our choice of where to shop if this Out of Town Superstore was built.
I understand that many people do not mind the High Street shops disappearing because they like shopping in modern buildings that are replicated all over the country. But we who do not want Ledbury to be the same as any other town, would loose our choice of where to shop if this Out of Town Superstore was built.
Andrew Warmington
says...
9:11am Wed 18 Jan 12
LOOTS would be the technically correct acronym for Ledbury Opposes Out-of-Town Superstores, I suppose. The Facebook group and community was originally called LOTS - Ledbury Opposes Tesco Superstore - because only Tesco were applying to build at that point. The name stayed that way when Sainsbury's entered the fray, even though what it stood for changed, for two reasons: first because you can't change a community (as opposed to group) name on Facebook and secondly because LOOTS sounds a bit unfortunate. I think that LATS, as they were then, were already using it satirically.
As for who has the majority support, no-one knows because it has never been assessed in a statistically viable way. If anyone wanted to do find out, there are two ways to do it. Either have an independent poll carried out of a statistically significant, randomly chosen group of local residents or conduct a real poll. LESS actually proposed to do the latter at one point, then ducked out at the last minute giving some BS reason for it that that someone who's AgainstBS would surely want to pick apart ...
As for who has the majority support, no-one knows because it has never been assessed in a statistically viable way. If anyone wanted to do find out, there are two ways to do it. Either have an independent poll carried out of a statistically significant, randomly chosen group of local residents or conduct a real poll. LESS actually proposed to do the latter at one point, then ducked out at the last minute giving some BS reason for it that that someone who's AgainstBS would surely want to pick apart ...
LOOTS supporter
says...
9:40am Wed 18 Jan 12
I wish to focus on the benefits of keeping the character of Ledbury. Anyone who wants an Out of Town Superstore should sign LESS petition. But I would encourage anyone who values what we already have in Ledbury and/or who has not made up their mind on this issue to look on www.saveledbury.com. If you love Ledbury, sign and send off the tear-off section from our leaflet available from the shops in Ledbury.
AgainstBS
says...
6:32pm Thu 19 Jan 12
Do you know LOOTS supporter its actually quite nice to have someone in the opposite camp who can state their point of view without resorting to petty insults.
I'd also like to add that any person who wants to support the Sainsbury's application can also send in the LESS leaflet or if the prefer it can be left at the barbers shop in Bye Street for collection and delivery to Herefordshire Council. We will also be in Ledbury on Saturday 21st From 9.30am for any who haven't already signed our petition.
You are right in the end it will be Herfordshire Planning who make the final decision .. however, they would be fools to ignore public opinion.
I must take you up on your comment "I understand that many people do not mind the High Street shops disappearing because they like shopping in modern buildings that are replicated all over the country." this is not so with the LESS people, we love the town as much as anybody else, but we simply don't believe Sainsbury's will have any effect on it at all .. I could go into reasons but these have been posted many, many times.
I'd also like to add that any person who wants to support the Sainsbury's application can also send in the LESS leaflet or if the prefer it can be left at the barbers shop in Bye Street for collection and delivery to Herefordshire Council. We will also be in Ledbury on Saturday 21st From 9.30am for any who haven't already signed our petition.
You are right in the end it will be Herfordshire Planning who make the final decision .. however, they would be fools to ignore public opinion.
I must take you up on your comment "I understand that many people do not mind the High Street shops disappearing because they like shopping in modern buildings that are replicated all over the country." this is not so with the LESS people, we love the town as much as anybody else, but we simply don't believe Sainsbury's will have any effect on it at all .. I could go into reasons but these have been posted many, many times.
psychiatrist
says...
10:06pm Thu 19 Jan 12
Hi Guys
I've had a mad idea about saturday - why don't we all go dressed up as oranges, you know like the colour of sainsbury, to show our support - people would know who we stand for and it would look great and be fun to
I've had a mad idea about saturday - why don't we all go dressed up as oranges, you know like the colour of sainsbury, to show our support - people would know who we stand for and it would look great and be fun to
LOOTS supporter
says...
10:23pm Thu 19 Jan 12
Against BS Yes I think that we must just agree to disagree. In my opinion, there is no need to be against LOTS or against LESS, ( who after all are your neighbours and friends) but we can be just against / for the Superstore. You sound as if you want to retain the High Street as well as gain the Sainsburys Superstore and you do not think that such a huge Out Of Town Superstore will drain trade away from the centre of Town. I just do not think this is possible from the evidence, I think that although many people really are too busy to have an opinion, most interested people have made up their mind by this stage. There are plenty of opportunities to hear/read both sides of the argument. No-one can complain that their views are not represented. Ledbury Opposes Tesco Superstore community facebook and www.saveledbury.com are both very good sources of opinion and evidence from LOTS. The LOTS tear off cards are in many shops and can be handed in to Past and Present shop in the High Street or sent off to Hereford with a stamp. I would add that Hereford Planning Department has made decisions in the past that have been unpopular with large groups of people and many residents in Ledbury are going to be disappointed. No-one in LESS or LOTS can be 100% sure who will be disappointed this time.
LOOTS supporter
says...
8:13am Fri 20 Jan 12
Psychiarist, I hope you will not take offence when I point out that from what I have read, dressing up in orange, (so that you are advertising Sainsburys rather than Tesco or any other Supermarket), appears to be standard advice to local residents - from Gough Baily and Wright, which is Sainsburys P.R. company. I know I could well be on your side in another life, but I would hope I would be representing my self rather than a huge multinational company. If Sainsburys fail we could have Tescos or Morrisons etc. applying for a O.O.T Superstore and we in LOTS would still be objecting in our usual clothes.
AgainstBS
says...
9:42am Fri 20 Jan 12
I can assure you Psychiarist & LOOTS Supporter no one will be dressing up in orange on Saturday, there will be some balloons and badges saying "support Saisnbury's", kindly donated by a local supporter. This campaign is being run by local people for local people and despite numerous accusations of the LESS group now being run by a PR company I can honestly say that the campaign is still headed by those local people.
AgainstBS
says...
2:16pm Fri 20 Jan 12
I'd also like to add that anyone who wants to submit a supporting letter can do so at the barbers in Bye Street, you can't miss it as it has a LE.S.S. For More poster in the window, there is also a petition there to sign as well, If you have email I would urge you to show your support by sending an email marked FAO Roland Close, quoting the planning reference number - N113052/F to planning_enquiries@h
erefordshire.gov.uk
erefordshire.gov.uk
Terri1963
says...
11:01pm Fri 20 Jan 12
I believe that the 'oppose anything for Ledbury group' & their supporters are maybe it seems anyway from the posts above, people who feel that what they say and think is best for Ledbury and its residents, is far more important than those that don't agree with them, this is not RIGHT! You do seem to enjoy trying to discredit LESS & their opinions & constantly try and ridicule anything we say, WHY, just because we have a different opinion to you, this is quite childish & wrong. I believe that you feel it is right to post your doom and gloom stories out to Ledbury people, talking of the end of Ledbury is nigh if a new Supermarket is built, this is a very rediculous statement isn't it. Ledbury was lovely in the 50's, 60's, 70's, 80's, 90's etc but things change, life progresses, Victorian Farm is very nice but we cannot preserve past life as much as we may want to, there is no need to change the high street either, the people who shop there will not desert these shops but WE simply want a decent store of a suitable size in order to have a choice in Ledbury that WILL simply make shopping much more affordable for many many residents who NEED this option. If Ledbury grocery & regular food shopping was sufficient in Ledbury at present as you say, why would thousands of Ledbury residents shop in Malvern, Glos, Ross etc, including some prominent LOTS supporters I might add, simple answer, they wouldn't & if these same people who now leave Ledbury to shop, move to shop in the new Sainsbury's, the town centre shops will still have their faithful long time customers won't they, who you maintain are the majority of Ledbury at present, so why will Ledbury turn into a Ghost town & die, answer, which is obvious, IT WON"T.
LESS will be in Ledbury town on Saturday 21st Jan and will be very pleased to speak to anybody who would like to and will also have petitions for the new store for you to sign, should you wish to and information of how you can write or email and support the Sainsbury's application.
LESS will be in Ledbury town on Saturday 21st Jan and will be very pleased to speak to anybody who would like to and will also have petitions for the new store for you to sign, should you wish to and information of how you can write or email and support the Sainsbury's application.
Terri1963
says...
11:01pm Fri 20 Jan 12
I believe that the 'oppose anything for Ledbury group' & their supporters are maybe it seems anyway from the posts above, people who feel that what they say and think is best for Ledbury and its residents, is far more important than those that don't agree with them, this is not RIGHT! You do seem to enjoy trying to discredit LESS & their opinions & constantly try and ridicule anything we say, WHY, just because we have a different opinion to you, this is quite childish & wrong. I believe that you feel it is right to post your doom and gloom stories out to Ledbury people, talking of the end of Ledbury is nigh if a new Supermarket is built, this is a very rediculous statement isn't it. Ledbury was lovely in the 50's, 60's, 70's, 80's, 90's etc but things change, life progresses, Victorian Farm is very nice but we cannot preserve past life as much as we may want to, there is no need to change the high street either, the people who shop there will not desert these shops but WE simply want a decent store of a suitable size in order to have a choice in Ledbury that WILL simply make shopping much more affordable for many many residents who NEED this option. If Ledbury grocery & regular food shopping was sufficient in Ledbury at present as you say, why would thousands of Ledbury residents shop in Malvern, Glos, Ross etc, including some prominent LOTS supporters I might add, simple answer, they wouldn't & if these same people who now leave Ledbury to shop, move to shop in the new Sainsbury's, the town centre shops will still have their faithful long time customers won't they, who you maintain are the majority of Ledbury at present, so why will Ledbury turn into a Ghost town & die, answer, which is obvious, IT WON"T.
LESS will be in Ledbury town on Saturday 21st Jan and will be very pleased to speak to anybody who would like to and will also have petitions for the new store for you to sign, should you wish to and information of how you can write or email and support the Sainsbury's application.
LESS will be in Ledbury town on Saturday 21st Jan and will be very pleased to speak to anybody who would like to and will also have petitions for the new store for you to sign, should you wish to and information of how you can write or email and support the Sainsbury's application.
Terri1963
says...
11:01pm Fri 20 Jan 12
I believe that the 'oppose anything for Ledbury group' & their supporters are maybe it seems anyway from the posts above, people who feel that what they say and think is best for Ledbury and its residents, is far more important than those that don't agree with them, this is not RIGHT! You do seem to enjoy trying to discredit LESS & their opinions & constantly try and ridicule anything we say, WHY, just because we have a different opinion to you, this is quite childish & wrong. I believe that you feel it is right to post your doom and gloom stories out to Ledbury people, talking of the end of Ledbury is nigh if a new Supermarket is built, this is a very rediculous statement isn't it. Ledbury was lovely in the 50's, 60's, 70's, 80's, 90's etc but things change, life progresses, Victorian Farm is very nice but we cannot preserve past life as much as we may want to, there is no need to change the high street either, the people who shop there will not desert these shops but WE simply want a decent store of a suitable size in order to have a choice in Ledbury that WILL simply make shopping much more affordable for many many residents who NEED this option. If Ledbury grocery & regular food shopping was sufficient in Ledbury at present as you say, why would thousands of Ledbury residents shop in Malvern, Glos, Ross etc, including some prominent LOTS supporters I might add, simple answer, they wouldn't & if these same people who now leave Ledbury to shop, move to shop in the new Sainsbury's, the town centre shops will still have their faithful long time customers won't they, who you maintain are the majority of Ledbury at present, so why will Ledbury turn into a Ghost town & die, answer, which is obvious, IT WON"T.
LESS will be in Ledbury town on Saturday 21st Jan and will be very pleased to speak to anybody who would like to and will also have petitions for the new store for you to sign, should you wish to and information of how you can write or email and support the Sainsbury's application.
LESS will be in Ledbury town on Saturday 21st Jan and will be very pleased to speak to anybody who would like to and will also have petitions for the new store for you to sign, should you wish to and information of how you can write or email and support the Sainsbury's application.
Terri1963
says...
11:01pm Fri 20 Jan 12
I believe that the 'oppose anything for Ledbury group' & their supporters are maybe it seems anyway from the posts above, people who feel that what they say and think is best for Ledbury and its residents, is far more important than those that don't agree with them, this is not RIGHT! You do seem to enjoy trying to discredit LESS & their opinions & constantly try and ridicule anything we say, WHY, just because we have a different opinion to you, this is quite childish & wrong. I believe that you feel it is right to post your doom and gloom stories out to Ledbury people, talking of the end of Ledbury is nigh if a new Supermarket is built, this is a very rediculous statement isn't it. Ledbury was lovely in the 50's, 60's, 70's, 80's, 90's etc but things change, life progresses, Victorian Farm is very nice but we cannot preserve past life as much as we may want to, there is no need to change the high street either, the people who shop there will not desert these shops but WE simply want a decent store of a suitable size in order to have a choice in Ledbury that WILL simply make shopping much more affordable for many many residents who NEED this option. If Ledbury grocery & regular food shopping was sufficient in Ledbury at present as you say, why would thousands of Ledbury residents shop in Malvern, Glos, Ross etc, including some prominent LOTS supporters I might add, simple answer, they wouldn't & if these same people who now leave Ledbury to shop, move to shop in the new Sainsbury's, the town centre shops will still have their faithful long time customers won't they, who you maintain are the majority of Ledbury at present, so why will Ledbury turn into a Ghost town & die, answer, which is obvious, IT WON"T.
LESS will be in Ledbury town on Saturday 21st Jan and will be very pleased to speak to anybody who would like to and will also have petitions for the new store for you to sign, should you wish to and information of how you can write or email and support the Sainsbury's application.
LESS will be in Ledbury town on Saturday 21st Jan and will be very pleased to speak to anybody who would like to and will also have petitions for the new store for you to sign, should you wish to and information of how you can write or email and support the Sainsbury's application.
AgainstBS
says...
7:23pm Mon 23 Jan 12
As my fun has ended with this little game I've been playing, I'll set the record straight, I am Mr Marschall.
Andrew Warmington
says...
9:30am Tue 24 Jan 12
I don't claim any great powers of deduction in having worked that out from the start. It was obvious.
I can't help wondering if you realised that a quick Google of 'AgainstBS' would soon lead people to your public profile on This is Gloucestershire and decided to expose yourself before someone else did it for you. Well, I thought about it but decided not to on because (a) I am not how think I am and (b) this isn't about you and me.
It's also interesting to note that you choose to fess up on this thread rather than the one where AgainstBS and Colin J Marschall 'both' threaten to report me to the Hereford Times for saying correctly that they are one and the same. Quite indignant you 'both' were about that.
(For anyone who doesn't know what I mean, it's the one headed 'JD Wetherspoons expresses interest in former Ledbury electrical store'. It makes quite interesting reading with the benefit of hindsight.)
You have a very strange sense of fun, Colin. More to the point, given all this, why should anyone trust a word you say about anything else??
I can't help wondering if you realised that a quick Google of 'AgainstBS' would soon lead people to your public profile on This is Gloucestershire and decided to expose yourself before someone else did it for you. Well, I thought about it but decided not to on because (a) I am not how think I am and (b) this isn't about you and me.
It's also interesting to note that you choose to fess up on this thread rather than the one where AgainstBS and Colin J Marschall 'both' threaten to report me to the Hereford Times for saying correctly that they are one and the same. Quite indignant you 'both' were about that.
(For anyone who doesn't know what I mean, it's the one headed 'JD Wetherspoons expresses interest in former Ledbury electrical store'. It makes quite interesting reading with the benefit of hindsight.)
You have a very strange sense of fun, Colin. More to the point, given all this, why should anyone trust a word you say about anything else??
AgainstBS
says...
2:28pm Tue 24 Jan 12
Of course I knew that if you googled the name it would come up, why do you think it was left there to see, and your post was reported due to the fact that you had nothing at the time.
I can assure you that those people who needed to know, knew exactly who I was and they trust me still .. unlike any of the main LOTS people. i'm sure you all feel you can have a field day with this, but all you will do is make yourselfs look more petty than most all ready think you are, and Mr Warmington you are a)exactly how I think you are b)no it isn't about you and me .. its a shame you didn't realise that sooner.
You see Mr Warmington I have no fear of you or your "mates", what ever you say to me or about me is water off a ducks back. Those who know me know who I really am and nothing will change that,
I can assure you that those people who needed to know, knew exactly who I was and they trust me still .. unlike any of the main LOTS people. i'm sure you all feel you can have a field day with this, but all you will do is make yourselfs look more petty than most all ready think you are, and Mr Warmington you are a)exactly how I think you are b)no it isn't about you and me .. its a shame you didn't realise that sooner.
You see Mr Warmington I have no fear of you or your "mates", what ever you say to me or about me is water off a ducks back. Those who know me know who I really am and nothing will change that,
MartinJames says...
9:45pm Fri 13 Jan 12
I would like to register my support for an intended new Sainsbury’s supermarket that is proposed in Ledbury.
I have been a resident of this town for all of my life and have witnessed change and seen the population grow and there is now an undoubted need for a new supermarket, the demands of the people in Ledbury and the surrounding communities have simply outstripped the choices that the current Tesco store offer – Ledbury is a growing town and with another possible 800 more houses being built and potentially another 2500+ residents living here we have to be able to offer the affordable choice that residents both old and new will demand without the need to leave the town to do a substantial food shop every week.
How can the possibilities of some 220 new full and part time positions of employment be ignored too? There are some within this area who question just what kind of person would want to be working for such an organisation but I can assure you that there are many, many people in Ledbury who would be only too glad to take up a position of employment within a new supermarket – We are in a period of economic difficulty and yet Ledbury has a unique opportunity to welcome a major retailer and that in itself is surely a vote of confidence within the area being shown by Sainsbury’s, a move not just to benefit the town of Ledbury itself but to include all of the surrounding local communities as well, what a fantastic chance for Herefordshire to put itself on the map with a positive pin and be seen as forward thinking and understanding when it comes to helping provide employment etc.
I urge all members of the planning committee to view this fantastic proposal and application with favour, Ledbury can move into the 21st Century without harming our heritage and it can embrace a major new retailer that offers affordability and choice without its local population having to migrate every weekend to the likes of Hereford, Gloucester, Malvern & Worcester in search of choice at affordable prices and of course cheaper fuel, let us not forget that for decades now Ledbury has never had the luxury of a petrol station that offers fuel at competitive prices, a luxury that many take for granted.
Thank you for your time in reading of my support and once again I urge you and your fellow councillors to view with favour and understand just what, at times has become a silent majority within Ledbury, actually do want within our town – a supermarket that is large enough to cope with the demands of its residents and community and one that helps and encourages the younger generation to stay within its boundaries, we must not forget that the younger generation are the future of Ledbury.
I will gladly lend my name to your petition and keep up the good work