Thousands stung by 'bedroom tax'

OVER 1440 Herefordshire residents will be hit by the controversial ‘bedroom’ tax on social housing that came into force yesterday.

A National Housing Federation study estimates 766 people in the Hereford and Herefordshire South constituency, and 675 in Herefordshire North, will fall foul of the new regulations.

Those affected will see their annual housing benefit cut by at least £591, or an average of £14 a week.

The changes allow for one bedroom for each person or couple living as part of the household, with the following exceptions:

• Children under 16 of same gender expected to share.

• Children under 10 expected to share regardless of gender.

• Disabled tenant or partner who needs non resident overnight carer will be allowed an extra bedroom.

The human cost, however, varies.

While students are exempt, providing they are away for less than 52 weeks ( or six months for Universal Credit), parents that have children who visit – but are not technically part of the household - are not.

Nationwide, the bedroom tax will hit an estimated 660,000 working-age social tenants – 31% of existing working-age housing benefit claimants in the social sector as the government looks to cut expenditure.

The majority of these people have only one extra bedroom, for those deemed to have two, they stand to lose 25% of their housing benefits – or £1, 055 a year.

Herefordshire's lower earners are already the victims of insufficient affordable housing, according to its 'affordability ratio', the relationship between lower quartile house prices and lower quartile earnings.

A council bulletin last May noted that over the previous 11 years, Herefordshire’s affordability ratio has been consistently higher than regionally and nationally.

In 2011 in would cost a Herefordian on lower earning 8.6 times their annual salary to buy a house at the bottom end of the market, over 25% more than the West Midlands average.

Comments (60)

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5:48pm Tue 2 Apr 13

revdjones says...

Looks like it's been a day of keeping up with the Hereford Heckler at HT Towers.
Looks like it's been a day of keeping up with the Hereford Heckler at HT Towers. revdjones

1:21pm Wed 3 Apr 13

OwenH says...

Not sure it's helpful to repeat the phrase "bedroom tax" - it's not a tax, it's a removal of benefit. In the same way removal of child benefit for higher rate tax payers is not a "tax on children".
Not sure it's helpful to repeat the phrase "bedroom tax" - it's not a tax, it's a removal of benefit. In the same way removal of child benefit for higher rate tax payers is not a "tax on children". OwenH

5:05pm Wed 3 Apr 13

gedina says...

Why should we pay for those on benefit to continue scrounging money from the country- go and get a job and pay your way you lazy ba***ards.
as previously stated, this is not a tax at all, simply a removal of benefit entitlement.
Why should we pay for those on benefit to continue scrounging money from the country- go and get a job and pay your way you lazy ba***ards. as previously stated, this is not a tax at all, simply a removal of benefit entitlement. gedina

10:22pm Wed 3 Apr 13

dippyhippy says...

I would just like to make the following points.
1. If every person who needed to downsize said "OK then,move me somewhere else" They couldn't. There is a shortage of 1 and 2 bedroom properties, right across the board. Including,council housing,private landlords and housing association.

2.There are exemptions - but to me,they don't make sense.For example,if you require a live-in carer,you get to keep your "spare room." There are a hell of a lot of couples,where one is the main carer for the other. Due to disability,two rooms are required,yet they are not exempt.

3.Things need to change,yes, I quite agree - but lets not tar all with the same brush,and lets not be so quick to judge other peoples' situation.
I would just like to make the following points. 1. If every person who needed to downsize said "OK then,move me somewhere else" They couldn't. There is a shortage of 1 and 2 bedroom properties, right across the board. Including,council housing,private landlords and housing association. 2.There are exemptions - but to me,they don't make sense.For example,if you require a live-in carer,you get to keep your "spare room." There are a hell of a lot of couples,where one is the main carer for the other. Due to disability,two rooms are required,yet they are not exempt. 3.Things need to change,yes, I quite agree - but lets not tar all with the same brush,and lets not be so quick to judge other peoples' situation. dippyhippy

4:14pm Thu 4 Apr 13

mizza21 says...

gedina. I hope you are comfortable in your ability to pay your way and that one day your comfortable little life doesn't fall apart and you end up needing state help.
If you do some uncaring soul may call you a scrounger and suggest you should just go and get a bloody job and moan about why they should pay their taxes to fund your benefit lifestyle.

You should think through your posts more carefully.,

If someone chooses benefits as a life choice, that is a hard path with no dignity.
gedina. I hope you are comfortable in your ability to pay your way and that one day your comfortable little life doesn't fall apart and you end up needing state help. If you do some uncaring soul may call you a scrounger and suggest you should just go and get a bloody job and moan about why they should pay their taxes to fund your benefit lifestyle. You should think through your posts more carefully., If someone chooses benefits as a life choice, that is a hard path with no dignity. mizza21

4:32pm Thu 4 Apr 13

probono says...

£14 a week is less than most people pay for their moblie phone and Sky TV. And in many households everyone has a mobile phone and contract.
I earn my money but increasingly resent the amount that is taken away to support others who could work. Those with genuine needs will get help, but the scroungers are the ones moaning. We all kmow the person, running about gardeing, shopping, and going out socially, and then is seen on a regular visit to sign on on 2 crutches being collected by a hospital car. Don't get me started - how ever did we manage before the government started to give Council Tax Support, Housing Benefit and the rest of the benefits people take as a right whether they have ever worked or not? My Council Tax is over £50 a week and I pay every penny and always will.
£14 a week is less than most people pay for their moblie phone and Sky TV. And in many households everyone has a mobile phone and contract. I earn my money but increasingly resent the amount that is taken away to support others who could work. Those with genuine needs will get help, but the scroungers are the ones moaning. We all kmow the person, running about gardeing, shopping, and going out socially, and then is seen on a regular visit to sign on on 2 crutches being collected by a hospital car. Don't get me started - how ever did we manage before the government started to give Council Tax Support, Housing Benefit and the rest of the benefits people take as a right whether they have ever worked or not? My Council Tax is over £50 a week and I pay every penny and always will. probono

7:34pm Thu 4 Apr 13

Biomech says...

Good. Social housing is a privilege not a right, don't like it? Go and rent privately.

These people whinging about benefits cuts over their spare bedrooms when other families are crammed into small rooms and have to room share just to have a roof over their heads.

These people are the very ones that would be kicking off if they had 1 room for 3 kids while their neighbour had a room going unused.
Good. Social housing is a privilege not a right, don't like it? Go and rent privately. These people whinging about benefits cuts over their spare bedrooms when other families are crammed into small rooms and have to room share just to have a roof over their heads. These people are the very ones that would be kicking off if they had 1 room for 3 kids while their neighbour had a room going unused. Biomech

7:36pm Thu 4 Apr 13

Biomech says...

And as probono mentioned, all these people manage to find enough money for fags, alcohol, Sky TV, mobiles and xbox
And as probono mentioned, all these people manage to find enough money for fags, alcohol, Sky TV, mobiles and xbox Biomech

10:22pm Thu 4 Apr 13

Werintrouble says...

We are supposed to be a modern and tolerant society that sets us apart from all the rest.
But, as soon as times get hard, money and jobs dry up and our population explodes because of the EU politics, we start blaming the weak, the poor, those who are disadvantaged and those who are different to us.
Don't we ever learn from European history?
We are supposed to be a modern and tolerant society that sets us apart from all the rest. But, as soon as times get hard, money and jobs dry up and our population explodes because of the EU politics, we start blaming the weak, the poor, those who are disadvantaged and those who are different to us. Don't we ever learn from European history? Werintrouble

11:58pm Thu 4 Apr 13

dippyhippy says...

Yes,there are no doubt work shy folk,who are a stranger to a hard days work - and yes,that has to stop. This however,is different. Everybody is being branded the same.
I would be very interester to hear Gedina's thoughts on the ex-serviceman,who has servrd his country. Now suffering with PTSD,his wife is too frightened to share a bed with him because of the violent nightmares he still suffers.
Perhaps Probono, you could offer advice to the 82 year old woman caring for her 83 year old husband. They have worked all their lives. In the last 5 years,he has suffered a series of strokes. His wife cares for him at home - in the 2 bed bugalow the council adapted for them .
These are but 2 examples. This is very unfair to some people and they are not exempt.
Please,don't be so harsh in condemning all.
Yes,there are no doubt work shy folk,who are a stranger to a hard days work - and yes,that has to stop. This however,is different. Everybody is being branded the same. I would be very interester to hear Gedina's thoughts on the ex-serviceman,who has servrd his country. Now suffering with PTSD,his wife is too frightened to share a bed with him because of the violent nightmares he still suffers. Perhaps Probono, you could offer advice to the 82 year old woman caring for her 83 year old husband. They have worked all their lives. In the last 5 years,he has suffered a series of strokes. His wife cares for him at home - in the 2 bed bugalow the council adapted for them . These are but 2 examples. This is very unfair to some people and they are not exempt. Please,don't be so harsh in condemning all. dippyhippy

12:12am Fri 5 Apr 13

Biomech says...

Tolerance breeds abuse of the system/s. All we hear these days is you can't say that, you can't protect this. Well guess what,.now people are allowed to do anything without so much as an objection - they do.
Tolerance breeds abuse of the system/s. All we hear these days is you can't say that, you can't protect this. Well guess what,.now people are allowed to do anything without so much as an objection - they do. Biomech

12:57am Fri 5 Apr 13

dippyhippy says...

Evening Biomech! I guess you have trouble sleeping too!
Once again, you and I do have common ground!! Yes, I completely agree that the system is way too open to abuse - this has to be stopped. I also agree that social housing is there to help as families get bigger,and therefore,when your family fly the nest,a smaller property would be preferable. What I am saying,is that the exemptions that stand now,are extremely unfair.There are many cases that simply don't fit the criteria, yet you would have to be devoid of all emotion not to see that lives sre being turned upside down.
We have a generation growing up, who have never worked and they have never known their parents to work. This , to me, is what needs tackling,Not throwing a couple of pensioners out of their home.
Evening Biomech! I guess you have trouble sleeping too! Once again, you and I do have common ground!! Yes, I completely agree that the system is way too open to abuse - this has to be stopped. I also agree that social housing is there to help as families get bigger,and therefore,when your family fly the nest,a smaller property would be preferable. What I am saying,is that the exemptions that stand now,are extremely unfair.There are many cases that simply don't fit the criteria, yet you would have to be devoid of all emotion not to see that lives sre being turned upside down. We have a generation growing up, who have never worked and they have never known their parents to work. This , to me, is what needs tackling,Not throwing a couple of pensioners out of their home. dippyhippy

11:02pm Fri 5 Apr 13

probono says...

DIppyhippy, It has been said, and I admit that is has yet to be seen in action, that the vunerable will be exempt, but it will probably need a case by case consideration. More work for overworked social and care workers.
When I hear some people saying that they need a new bed or cooker and that 'they' will have to pay for it, it is those of us paying taxes and working that are the 'they' beiing talked about.
We are the laughing stock of Europe for our overgenerous benifits system and lax policing of the rules so that organised crime has been able to tap into the system and presumably stillis, taking millions every year for bogus children rent and much else.
DIppyhippy, It has been said, and I admit that is has yet to be seen in action, that the vunerable will be exempt, but it will probably need a case by case consideration. More work for overworked social and care workers. When I hear some people saying that they need a new bed or cooker and that 'they' will have to pay for it, it is those of us paying taxes and working that are the 'they' beiing talked about. We are the laughing stock of Europe for our overgenerous benifits system and lax policing of the rules so that organised crime has been able to tap into the system and presumably stillis, taking millions every year for bogus children rent and much else. probono

11:14pm Fri 5 Apr 13

dippyhippy says...

Probono,thanks for replying. Again,like me and Biomech,we do have common ground. I share your frustration at the benefits system for those to whom work is a stranger,and I know exactly what you mean when you say"how did people manage before all these benefits?" I know how I managed - I worked 3 jobs,never claimed a penny,just managed to pay my mortgage/bills and feed the family. It was tough.
That said, I just cannot stand by and say nothing when these new rules are bought in with no safety net for those who are in genuine need. I cannot stay silent,when the unfairness stinks.There are huge problems to be fixed - but lets not lose our compassion for those with genuine need,and that means,not generalising!!
Again,I really appreciate the points you make,and thanks for taking the time to respond! Take care.
Probono,thanks for replying. Again,like me and Biomech,we do have common ground. I share your frustration at the benefits system for those to whom work is a stranger,and I know exactly what you mean when you say"how did people manage before all these benefits?" I know how I managed - I worked 3 jobs,never claimed a penny,just managed to pay my mortgage/bills and feed the family. It was tough. That said, I just cannot stand by and say nothing when these new rules are bought in with no safety net for those who are in genuine need. I cannot stay silent,when the unfairness stinks.There are huge problems to be fixed - but lets not lose our compassion for those with genuine need,and that means,not generalising!! Again,I really appreciate the points you make,and thanks for taking the time to respond! Take care. dippyhippy

12:44am Sat 6 Apr 13

Biomech says...

Plenty of time to sleep when you're dead Dippy ;P

To be honest, I actually thought I was going to incur a barrage of abuse for my comment - it's nice to see people took it the right way and agree.

I, of course, agree that there will be exceptions to consider. But as I say, I feel we've been told to be tolerant of everything for so long, people are just abusing it. You can't object to a Mosque being built for real reasons because it's prejudice, you can't object to immigration control when the statistics are on your side - because it's racist. You can't punish your child because it's child abuse, you can't fire a black man or a ask a woman to do the hoovering.... so now, all these people know that they can get away with anything, so they do.

In fact, it's got to the point of unreality. I know a few gay people - none of my close friends are, I know of maybe 1 transgender person... when was the last time you saw - in real life - a group of people or a workplace that had one of every culture, race, colour, creed and sexuality? It just doesn't happen. It's all gone WAY too far in the opposite - wrong - direction.
Plenty of time to sleep when you're dead Dippy ;P To be honest, I actually thought I was going to incur a barrage of abuse for my comment - it's nice to see people took it the right way and agree. I, of course, agree that there will be exceptions to consider. But as I say, I feel we've been told to be tolerant of everything for so long, people are just abusing it. You can't object to a Mosque being built for real reasons because it's prejudice, you can't object to immigration control when the statistics are on your side - because it's racist. You can't punish your child because it's child abuse, you can't fire a black man or a ask a woman to do the hoovering.... so now, all these people know that they can get away with anything, so they do. In fact, it's got to the point of unreality. I know a few gay people - none of my close friends are, I know of maybe 1 transgender person... when was the last time you saw - in real life - a group of people or a workplace that had one of every culture, race, colour, creed and sexuality? It just doesn't happen. It's all gone WAY too far in the opposite - wrong - direction. Biomech

9:40am Sat 6 Apr 13

dippyhippy says...

Biomech, you make many points above that I strongly disagree with,but that is part of what this forum is about.
All I ask,is that people show a little human kindness to each other......we are not on this planet very long.
Biomech, you make many points above that I strongly disagree with,but that is part of what this forum is about. All I ask,is that people show a little human kindness to each other......we are not on this planet very long. dippyhippy

11:42am Sat 6 Apr 13

dippyhippy says...

Biomech,now I have had the required amount of coffee and roll-ups, I am up to the task of responding better to your post! You took the time to post your views,and that deserved more than a quick two line response!
As the regular posters are leaving, this may be one of my final postings,so here goes.....
Can I share something with you? Many years ago, I thought I could change the world. The day Nelson Mandela walked free from prision, for me ,is right up there with the days my children were born.
After years of petitions, meetings and protests - change had been effected,and in some miniscule way,barely measurable on any scale,I had been a part of that change.
I am passionate about this planet,this world,this city,this human race - but have finally realised that I cannot change the world. I can only challenge views, and try my best to never become complacent whenever I see unfairness,prejudice or injustice.
If some all knowing being said to me, " Dippy, take this sugar coated pill,and two things will happen.
1. In the morning, the world will be a better place, there will be no more pain,no more suffering,no more war. It will be a world of hope,where your children and your childrens children will have the future you want for them.
2. You will not wake up in the morning to see this miraculous transformation....."

I would take the sugar coated pill.

People say I am a dreamer, they are probably right. But if enough people share that dream, then maybe one day,although not in my lifetime, that dream may come true.

I don't pretend I have all the answers to the problems facing this country, I wish I did. All I ask is that in the meanwhile, can we all show a little kindness,a little compassion,hell a bit of love towards our fellow man regardless of colour,sexuality,rac
e or creed?
I am one voice,but whilst I have breath in my lungs, I want my voice to be heard.
I would like to wish all posters and readers of these posts, peace , love harmony and hope. Take care all......
Biomech,now I have had the required amount of coffee and roll-ups, I am up to the task of responding better to your post! You took the time to post your views,and that deserved more than a quick two line response! As the regular posters are leaving, this may be one of my final postings,so here goes..... Can I share something with you? Many years ago, I thought I could change the world. The day Nelson Mandela walked free from prision, for me ,is right up there with the days my children were born. After years of petitions, meetings and protests - change had been effected,and in some miniscule way,barely measurable on any scale,I had been a part of that change. I am passionate about this planet,this world,this city,this human race - but have finally realised that I cannot change the world. I can only challenge views, and try my best to never become complacent whenever I see unfairness,prejudice or injustice. If some all knowing being said to me, " Dippy, take this sugar coated pill,and two things will happen. 1. In the morning, the world will be a better place, there will be no more pain,no more suffering,no more war. It will be a world of hope,where your children and your childrens children will have the future you want for them. 2. You will not wake up in the morning to see this miraculous transformation....." I would take the sugar coated pill. People say I am a dreamer, they are probably right. But if enough people share that dream, then maybe one day,although not in my lifetime, that dream may come true. I don't pretend I have all the answers to the problems facing this country, I wish I did. All I ask is that in the meanwhile, can we all show a little kindness,a little compassion,hell a bit of love towards our fellow man regardless of colour,sexuality,rac e or creed? I am one voice,but whilst I have breath in my lungs, I want my voice to be heard. I would like to wish all posters and readers of these posts, peace , love harmony and hope. Take care all...... dippyhippy

12:07pm Sat 6 Apr 13

littlewhitebull says...

Dippyhippy - always be a dreamer; this is what keeps the world alive. Without those who have followed the course of their dreams we would be in a worse position than we are.
Both you and Biomech have made some realistic and sensible posts - it's good that at times you can disagree, yet still keep sane and reasoned tones in your postings.
On a personal level, I abhor those who 'work' the system for their own benefit. I know of several people who have never worked yet seem to have everything in terms of personal possessions that I have worked hard all my life to acquire.
Then, again I know of two families who are terrified of what this so-called 'bedroom tax' will mean for them. Both families are hard-working and have produced good, well-balanced children who contribute to society. Both of my acquaintances have partners who are in need of care assistance - provided by their other partner.
I hope that the system is applied fairly and humanely, and each case is looked at with sympathy given for any exceptionable circumstances.
Dippyhippy - always be a dreamer; this is what keeps the world alive. Without those who have followed the course of their dreams we would be in a worse position than we are. Both you and Biomech have made some realistic and sensible posts - it's good that at times you can disagree, yet still keep sane and reasoned tones in your postings. On a personal level, I abhor those who 'work' the system for their own benefit. I know of several people who have never worked yet seem to have everything in terms of personal possessions that I have worked hard all my life to acquire. Then, again I know of two families who are terrified of what this so-called 'bedroom tax' will mean for them. Both families are hard-working and have produced good, well-balanced children who contribute to society. Both of my acquaintances have partners who are in need of care assistance - provided by their other partner. I hope that the system is applied fairly and humanely, and each case is looked at with sympathy given for any exceptionable circumstances. littlewhitebull

2:17pm Sat 6 Apr 13

Biomech says...

I'm certainly not saying that racism can't be an issue - just that it's going tragically in the opposite direction. I'm saying that having a photo of only white people or only Chinese people is NOT racist. I mean, in the name of equality, public media has a vast array of ethnic groups - leave a black man out of the picture and it's racist, have the black guy as a thief and it's racist or an Indian woman as a doctor... everyone is equally entitled to be depicted in any roll correct? Unless, of course, that role is deemed a stereotype. So what's more racist, having a picture with an Indian doctor or not having a picture with an Indian doctor.... do you know what I mean?

Personally I find "racist" says a lot more about the people screaming about it than it does the people who don't.

My favourite oxymoron is when people tell me I'm racist and that I can't say certain things because of the colour of my skin.
I'm certainly not saying that racism can't be an issue - just that it's going tragically in the opposite direction. I'm saying that having a photo of only white people or only Chinese people is NOT racist. I mean, in the name of equality, public media has a vast array of ethnic groups - leave a black man out of the picture and it's racist, have the black guy as a thief and it's racist or an Indian woman as a doctor... everyone is equally entitled to be depicted in any roll correct? Unless, of course, that role is deemed a stereotype. So what's more racist, having a picture with an Indian doctor or not having a picture with an Indian doctor.... do you know what I mean? Personally I find "racist" says a lot more about the people screaming about it than it does the people who don't. My favourite oxymoron is when people tell me I'm racist and that I can't say certain things because of the colour of my skin. Biomech

4:25pm Sat 6 Apr 13

dippyhippy says...

Hello Biomech! I take all of your points on board! Certaintly agree that the whole PC thing has got way out of hand!
I would never fall out with you, and would never,ever label you , for putting forward your thoughts.... communication is the way forward!
As I say, my main concern is that we are all a little kinder to each other!
Littlewhitebull, I shall keep on dreaming, Its all I know.......!!
Hello Biomech! I take all of your points on board! Certaintly agree that the whole PC thing has got way out of hand! I would never fall out with you, and would never,ever label you , for putting forward your thoughts.... communication is the way forward! As I say, my main concern is that we are all a little kinder to each other! Littlewhitebull, I shall keep on dreaming, Its all I know.......!! dippyhippy

4:27pm Sat 6 Apr 13

Biomech says...

Thanks Dippy
Thanks Dippy Biomech

11:51pm Sun 7 Apr 13

SchizTroll says...

Biomech wrote:
I'm certainly not saying that racism can't be an issue - just that it's going tragically in the opposite direction. I'm saying that having a photo of only white people or only Chinese people is NOT racist. I mean, in the name of equality, public media has a vast array of ethnic groups - leave a black man out of the picture and it's racist, have the black guy as a thief and it's racist or an Indian woman as a doctor... everyone is equally entitled to be depicted in any roll correct? Unless, of course, that role is deemed a stereotype. So what's more racist, having a picture with an Indian doctor or not having a picture with an Indian doctor.... do you know what I mean?

Personally I find "racist" says a lot more about the people screaming about it than it does the people who don't.

My favourite oxymoron is when people tell me I'm racist and that I can't say certain things because of the colour of my skin.
But you are racist aren't you? we've had months of anit east european anti immigrant ranting from you, it never stops. your obsesed.

"public media" ??? "leave a black man out of the picture and it's racist, have the black guy as a thief and it's racist or an Indian woman as a doctor..." WHERE? Just for once lets have the facts the evidence

No I didnt think so. Just a load of predictable old racist garbage trotted out as if its fact.

It was so nice while you werent posting on here bnpmech. oh well all good things come to an end. your back. and so am i. sigh
[quote][p][bold]Biomech[/bold] wrote: I'm certainly not saying that racism can't be an issue - just that it's going tragically in the opposite direction. I'm saying that having a photo of only white people or only Chinese people is NOT racist. I mean, in the name of equality, public media has a vast array of ethnic groups - leave a black man out of the picture and it's racist, have the black guy as a thief and it's racist or an Indian woman as a doctor... everyone is equally entitled to be depicted in any roll correct? Unless, of course, that role is deemed a stereotype. So what's more racist, having a picture with an Indian doctor or not having a picture with an Indian doctor.... do you know what I mean? Personally I find "racist" says a lot more about the people screaming about it than it does the people who don't. My favourite oxymoron is when people tell me I'm racist and that I can't say certain things because of the colour of my skin.[/p][/quote]But you are racist aren't you? we've had months of anit east european anti immigrant ranting from you, it never stops. your obsesed. "public media" ??? "leave a black man out of the picture and it's racist, have the black guy as a thief and it's racist or an Indian woman as a doctor..." WHERE? Just for once lets have the facts the evidence No I didnt think so. Just a load of predictable old racist garbage trotted out as if its fact. It was so nice while you werent posting on here bnpmech. oh well all good things come to an end. your back. and so am i. sigh SchizTroll

11:31am Mon 8 Apr 13

Werintrouble says...

Im with Dippyhippy. Queen of the Posters.
Well,,,,,,the mad fool has gone and we need a Monarch!
Queen Dippy.
Im with Dippyhippy. Queen of the Posters. Well,,,,,,the mad fool has gone and we need a Monarch! Queen Dippy. Werintrouble

12:50pm Mon 8 Apr 13

dippyhippy says...

Good afternoon, Shiztroll,I hope you are well. Many thanks for posting your views,I feel that perhaps we share a sense of wanting fairness,equality and an end to injustice.
Could I add a couple of points?
If you have read the entire thread, you will see that there were a few posts that I disagreed with.You will also note, that two posters responded. I totally respect that. One poster has not. To me, it is that lack of willingness to discuss that is the most concerning.
In order to effect "change" on any level, we have to be able to communicate - and thats a two way street!Whilst you and I may dream of that "perfect world" It isn't going happen unless we can talk to each other - find some common ground as a starting point.Its not enough to shout people down and stick labels on people. I would add, that after many many years,of challenging views,it can all get a little repetitive and frustrating, but its a small price to pay!
Discussions do need to take place,in a calm and balanced manner, about all sorts of problems that this country faces.
Taking every thing else out of the equation - we are a tiny island.We have no money to build more hospitals or schools.Our transport links are a mess. As a country,we are up to our eyeball in debt.
What do we do? A poster recently suggested a "door policy" ie. 10 people leave 10 people come in.
This sounds simple yet fair.I don't have the answers, But I do know that in order to find the answer , we must keep on talking!!
I would really appreciate it if you would take the time to respond to this. Take care.Dippy.
Good afternoon, Shiztroll,I hope you are well. Many thanks for posting your views,I feel that perhaps we share a sense of wanting fairness,equality and an end to injustice. Could I add a couple of points? If you have read the entire thread, you will see that there were a few posts that I disagreed with.You will also note, that two posters responded. I totally respect that. One poster has not. To me, it is that lack of willingness to discuss that is the most concerning. In order to effect "change" on any level, we have to be able to communicate - and thats a two way street!Whilst you and I may dream of that "perfect world" It isn't going happen unless we can talk to each other - find some common ground as a starting point.Its not enough to shout people down and stick labels on people. I would add, that after many many years,of challenging views,it can all get a little repetitive and frustrating, but its a small price to pay! Discussions do need to take place,in a calm and balanced manner, about all sorts of problems that this country faces. Taking every thing else out of the equation - we are a tiny island.We have no money to build more hospitals or schools.Our transport links are a mess. As a country,we are up to our eyeball in debt. What do we do? A poster recently suggested a "door policy" ie. 10 people leave 10 people come in. This sounds simple yet fair.I don't have the answers, But I do know that in order to find the answer , we must keep on talking!! I would really appreciate it if you would take the time to respond to this. Take care.Dippy. dippyhippy

1:30pm Mon 8 Apr 13

dippyhippy says...

Queen Werintrouble ? Queen?? I don't believe I have ever posted anything that alludes to me being male or female, and that is how it shall stay!! No, I am perfectly happy in my non-gender specific role as Poet Laureate to our great King Bobby - who will return, I have no doubt!!
Queen Werintrouble ? Queen?? I don't believe I have ever posted anything that alludes to me being male or female, and that is how it shall stay!! No, I am perfectly happy in my non-gender specific role as Poet Laureate to our great King Bobby - who will return, I have no doubt!! dippyhippy

4:58pm Mon 8 Apr 13

Werintrouble says...

Sorry Dippy. I just assumed from your soft and kind phrases you were female. Please don't take any offence.
Sorry Dippy. I just assumed from your soft and kind phrases you were female. Please don't take any offence. Werintrouble

5:50pm Mon 8 Apr 13

dippyhippy says...

Oh Werintrouble,no apology is necessary!! In fact, I actually chuckled to myself when I read your post!!

Schiztroll, please take the time to respond.....?
Oh Werintrouble,no apology is necessary!! In fact, I actually chuckled to myself when I read your post!! Schiztroll, please take the time to respond.....? dippyhippy

6:23pm Mon 8 Apr 13

SchizTroll says...

Yes Dippy you do seem like a nice person, reasonable and after a peaceful world. My problem with some people on here is the continual racist anti foreign comments no matter what. Yeah people are entitled to there views but when it starts being really nasty aiming to stir up distrust and hatred makign out evey east european is a scammer or scrounger taking our jobs and houses and benefits it really gets my blood boiling. Its the stuff that racists have been doing for years scapegoating outsiders for societies problems... the nazis did it with the jews

basically i really value living in a place where theres lots of differnet people food and cultures people talking foreign languages its good for the world that people can travel and work and learn. we live in a multicultural world. go to spain and see all the brits misbehaving and not learning the lingo do you see the locals blaming them for all there probelms?

the rednecks who want to keep england (and herefordshire) pure are selfish narrow minded and ignorant. and the good things is that they aint' the majority either. most people are just cool with things. trouble is the bigots just like to make a lot of noise and the reasonable people cant face getting involved. so thats my story. Im really fed up with listening to that rubbish and nobody saying anything to challenge it.we shoudlnt have to put up with casual racism on here. there are plenty of places the ukip edl bnp extremists can sprout their rubbish eg facebook. this is meant to be a newspaper!!
Yes Dippy you do seem like a nice person, reasonable and after a peaceful world. My problem with some people on here is the continual racist anti foreign comments no matter what. Yeah people are entitled to there views but when it starts being really nasty aiming to stir up distrust and hatred makign out evey east european is a scammer or scrounger taking our jobs and houses and benefits it really gets my blood boiling. Its the stuff that racists have been doing for years scapegoating outsiders for societies problems... the nazis did it with the jews basically i really value living in a place where theres lots of differnet people food and cultures people talking foreign languages its good for the world that people can travel and work and learn. we live in a multicultural world. go to spain and see all the brits misbehaving and not learning the lingo do you see the locals blaming them for all there probelms? the rednecks who want to keep england (and herefordshire) pure are selfish narrow minded and ignorant. and the good things is that they aint' the majority either. most people are just cool with things. trouble is the bigots just like to make a lot of noise and the reasonable people cant face getting involved. so thats my story. Im really fed up with listening to that rubbish and nobody saying anything to challenge it.we shoudlnt have to put up with casual racism on here. there are plenty of places the ukip edl bnp extremists can sprout their rubbish eg facebook. this is meant to be a newspaper!! SchizTroll

7:21pm Mon 8 Apr 13

dippyhippy says...

Hi Schiztroll,thanks so much for replying.I know its difficult,when confronted with views which are the polar opposite to your own. I am hoping we can agree on better ways to challenge those views! As I said, communication is key. Words, the ones we choose and the way we use them, can be very powerful. If posters can have conversations about sensitive issues, and if we can listen as well as speak, we are far more likely to find that starting point.
If nobody listens,whats the point in talking??
As I said, I don't have all the answers, or indeed any answers. I just know that when people discuss issues such as immigration, which does get folk hot under the collar, its not necassarily because they are rascist, its because they have deep concerns, real concerns about how this Island can cope. Discussions / debate are needed.
Also, I feel you have much to offer other threads of news,particularly the thread we are discussing at the moment, regarding the Hereford Times censoring comments. I would love to hear your thoughts on this freedom of speech issue.
As humans, we have many facets to our characters, I truely believe there is good to found in 99.9 % of people.Posters whose views you disagree with here, you may find you share similar thoughts with regarding other matters.....its worth trying.
Change happens - but its a long,hard process. Take care. Dippy.
Hi Schiztroll,thanks so much for replying.I know its difficult,when confronted with views which are the polar opposite to your own. I am hoping we can agree on better ways to challenge those views! As I said, communication is key. Words, the ones we choose and the way we use them, can be very powerful. If posters can have conversations about sensitive issues, and if we can listen as well as speak, we are far more likely to find that starting point. If nobody listens,whats the point in talking?? As I said, I don't have all the answers, or indeed any answers. I just know that when people discuss issues such as immigration, which does get folk hot under the collar, its not necassarily because they are rascist, its because they have deep concerns, real concerns about how this Island can cope. Discussions / debate are needed. Also, I feel you have much to offer other threads of news,particularly the thread we are discussing at the moment, regarding the Hereford Times censoring comments. I would love to hear your thoughts on this freedom of speech issue. As humans, we have many facets to our characters, I truely believe there is good to found in 99.9 % of people.Posters whose views you disagree with here, you may find you share similar thoughts with regarding other matters.....its worth trying. Change happens - but its a long,hard process. Take care. Dippy. dippyhippy

11:27am Tue 9 Apr 13

ad47uk says...

I had about £16 a fortnight housing benefit, not a lot granted, but I will lose that now because of the changes as i got a two bedrooms.

Now if I move from where I am into a one bedroom private accommodation, I would be able to claim housing benefit, but because the rent will be more than what I am paying now it will cost the government more in housing benefit.

As I said, I only lose £16 a fortnight, I can cope with that, but there are people who will lose a lot more and also they now have to pay some council tax.

i can understand to a certain extent why it is being done, but one again the poorer people lose out and the rich Tory boys just get richer.
I had about £16 a fortnight housing benefit, not a lot granted, but I will lose that now because of the changes as i got a two bedrooms. Now if I move from where I am into a one bedroom private accommodation, I would be able to claim housing benefit, but because the rent will be more than what I am paying now it will cost the government more in housing benefit. As I said, I only lose £16 a fortnight, I can cope with that, but there are people who will lose a lot more and also they now have to pay some council tax. i can understand to a certain extent why it is being done, but one again the poorer people lose out and the rich Tory boys just get richer. ad47uk

11:27am Tue 9 Apr 13

ad47uk says...

I had about £16 a fortnight housing benefit, not a lot granted, but I will lose that now because of the changes as i got a two bedrooms.

Now if I move from where I am into a one bedroom private accommodation, I would be able to claim housing benefit, but because the rent will be more than what I am paying now it will cost the government more in housing benefit.

As I said, I only lose £16 a fortnight, I can cope with that, but there are people who will lose a lot more and also they now have to pay some council tax.

i can understand to a certain extent why it is being done, but one again the poorer people lose out and the rich Tory boys just get richer.
I had about £16 a fortnight housing benefit, not a lot granted, but I will lose that now because of the changes as i got a two bedrooms. Now if I move from where I am into a one bedroom private accommodation, I would be able to claim housing benefit, but because the rent will be more than what I am paying now it will cost the government more in housing benefit. As I said, I only lose £16 a fortnight, I can cope with that, but there are people who will lose a lot more and also they now have to pay some council tax. i can understand to a certain extent why it is being done, but one again the poorer people lose out and the rich Tory boys just get richer. ad47uk

11:53am Tue 9 Apr 13

Biomech says...

The thing is, an equal society is fundamentally *impossible* when people aren't exactly the same. There's no debate, it can't be done. And no where in the history of mankind has a diverse population worked problem free and thrived - ever. As much as I like wishful thinking, there is a harsh reality out there, but people would rather hide being claims of xenophobia and racism than admit it.

My council tax has also changed for the worst. I used to be poor, my family struggled with money my whole life and about 3 years ago I realised that sitting at home complaining about how poor I was was futile. So I decided to do something about it, now I'm not poor (or rich - yet!). With so much of the current situation, people choose to be the victim because it's easier than doing something about it.
The thing is, an equal society is fundamentally *impossible* when people aren't exactly the same. There's no debate, it can't be done. And no where in the history of mankind has a diverse population worked problem free and thrived - ever. As much as I like wishful thinking, there is a harsh reality out there, but people would rather hide being claims of xenophobia and racism than admit it. My council tax has also changed for the worst. I used to be poor, my family struggled with money my whole life and about 3 years ago I realised that sitting at home complaining about how poor I was was futile. So I decided to do something about it, now I'm not poor (or rich - yet!). With so much of the current situation, people choose to be the victim because it's easier than doing something about it. Biomech

12:00pm Tue 9 Apr 13

Biomech says...

I'll give you another example. A friend of mine was recently made redundant due to the current economical client. He was supporting a mortgage on his own and, now, jobless. 3 weeks later he had a new job in a completely different industry. And yet, there are people out there claiming there aren't any jobs, that employers don't give them and chance or even an interview - well guess what, if you're not up to scratch, you won't get the job. People like to blame society for their lack of employment when, in reality, it's simply a fact that they have nothing to offer. at least 50% of CV/applications I've seen have been so poorly written and presented that they've end up in the bin.
I'll give you another example. A friend of mine was recently made redundant due to the current economical client. He was supporting a mortgage on his own and, now, jobless. 3 weeks later he had a new job in a completely different industry. And yet, there are people out there claiming there aren't any jobs, that employers don't give them and chance or even an interview - well guess what, if you're not up to scratch, you won't get the job. People like to blame society for their lack of employment when, in reality, it's simply a fact that they have nothing to offer. at least 50% of CV/applications I've seen have been so poorly written and presented that they've end up in the bin. Biomech

12:39pm Tue 9 Apr 13

OwenH says...

Biomech's last note says it was posted at 12:00pm - when is this magical time? Does the HT mean 12 noon or 12 midnight - it's all so confusing!
Biomech's last note says it was posted at 12:00pm - when is this magical time? Does the HT mean 12 noon or 12 midnight - it's all so confusing! OwenH

12:53pm Tue 9 Apr 13

Biomech says...

lol, I work so much I had to create an extra timezone to get it all done :P
lol, I work so much I had to create an extra timezone to get it all done :P Biomech

1:31pm Tue 9 Apr 13

Werintrouble says...

Biomech, everything you have said is completely wrong in every way.
You're actually proclaiming that no society, past or present has succeeded and thrived if that society has been made up of diverse people and diverse cultures.
Well, our society is diverse, has been for many, many decades and I consider the social development of Britain to be a huge success story.
You are plain wrong Biomech.
Biomech, everything you have said is completely wrong in every way. You're actually proclaiming that no society, past or present has succeeded and thrived if that society has been made up of diverse people and diverse cultures. Well, our society is diverse, has been for many, many decades and I consider the social development of Britain to be a huge success story. You are plain wrong Biomech. Werintrouble

1:39pm Tue 9 Apr 13

Biomech says...

So you think our diverse society is equal, just and problem free?
So you think our diverse society is equal, just and problem free? Biomech

1:43pm Tue 9 Apr 13

Biomech says...

It's a very commonly accepted ideology that multiculturalism does not work. This article touches on the issue but there is a plethora of research and studies backing up the ideas.

http://www.amerika.o
rg/politics/diversit
y-doesnt-work/
It's a very commonly accepted ideology that multiculturalism does not work. This article touches on the issue but there is a plethora of research and studies backing up the ideas. http://www.amerika.o rg/politics/diversit y-doesnt-work/ Biomech

1:55pm Tue 9 Apr 13

Werintrouble says...

You questioned much more than that. You used the word 'thrived' suggesting that 'we' were bound to fail in pursuit of a prosperous future because of our diversity.
You are wrong to say that.
You questioned much more than that. You used the word 'thrived' suggesting that 'we' were bound to fail in pursuit of a prosperous future because of our diversity. You are wrong to say that. Werintrouble

1:57pm Tue 9 Apr 13

dippyhippy says...

Biomech, I have nothing but admiration for your work ethic, that cannot be knocked.
Ad47uk, this is exactly the sort of thing I mean - people forced to move, yet costs more. The exemptions, the whole thing needs to be thought through much more carefully.
Biomech, I have nothing but admiration for your work ethic, that cannot be knocked. Ad47uk, this is exactly the sort of thing I mean - people forced to move, yet costs more. The exemptions, the whole thing needs to be thought through much more carefully. dippyhippy

2:06pm Tue 9 Apr 13

Biomech says...

Werintrouble, I would encourage you to read that article, as I say, this isn't my flippant opinion, it's a widely held theology based in research and scientific undertakings. In fact, it touches on the same predication as made by Plato himself. I appreciate your point of view, I'm just letting you know that this is a very well studied area of evolution and sociology. :)
Werintrouble, I would encourage you to read that article, as I say, this isn't my flippant opinion, it's a widely held theology based in research and scientific undertakings. In fact, it touches on the same predication as made by Plato himself. I appreciate your point of view, I'm just letting you know that this is a very well studied area of evolution and sociology. :) Biomech

2:33pm Tue 9 Apr 13

Werintrouble says...

Im not going to read it Biomech because its plain stupid.
I've got no problem discussing and debating the wisdom of the EU and the impact high levels of immigration have had upon the economy and our public services, but your view, which you are entitled to, isn't one I share or want to explore further.
Lets agree to disagree. Bye.
Im not going to read it Biomech because its plain stupid. I've got no problem discussing and debating the wisdom of the EU and the impact high levels of immigration have had upon the economy and our public services, but your view, which you are entitled to, isn't one I share or want to explore further. Lets agree to disagree. Bye. Werintrouble

2:45pm Tue 9 Apr 13

Biomech says...

Wow, really? This isn't "my view", this is heavily researched cultural sociology undertaken by professors of science and historians - do you consider physics and meteorology to be "plain stupid" as well? I'm not trying to fall out with your and I appreciate that you might not subscribe to it but to dismiss it without even consideration of a glance is the kind of thing that I'd expect from a radical religious sect like the Westboro Baptist Church.
Wow, really? This isn't "my view", this is heavily researched cultural sociology undertaken by professors of science and historians - do you consider physics and meteorology to be "plain stupid" as well? I'm not trying to fall out with your and I appreciate that you might not subscribe to it but to dismiss it without even consideration of a glance is the kind of thing that I'd expect from a radical religious sect like the Westboro Baptist Church. Biomech

2:50pm Tue 9 Apr 13

dippyhippy says...

The idea of posting, surely, is to try to learn a little from each other.One day, Channel 4 will no doubt come up with a programme where I go to live with Biomech for a week, then he has to put up with me and my dippyhippy ways for a week. I am sure we could learn from each other......!!
The idea of posting, surely, is to try to learn a little from each other.One day, Channel 4 will no doubt come up with a programme where I go to live with Biomech for a week, then he has to put up with me and my dippyhippy ways for a week. I am sure we could learn from each other......!! dippyhippy

2:54pm Tue 9 Apr 13

Werintrouble says...

Biomech, lets not talk about it anymore. Lets pretend Im thick and you are right and leave it at that. To quote you, 'There's no debate. It can't be done'.
Please just leave it alone now. Bye.
Biomech, lets not talk about it anymore. Lets pretend Im thick and you are right and leave it at that. To quote you, 'There's no debate. It can't be done'. Please just leave it alone now. Bye. Werintrouble

2:58pm Tue 9 Apr 13

Biomech says...

Well ok - I certainly can't force you to look at it but I must say I am very shocked.
Well ok - I certainly can't force you to look at it but I must say I am very shocked. Biomech

11:28pm Tue 9 Apr 13

SchizTroll says...

Right ive just had a look at bnpmechs loony tune website called www.amerika.org and yep its a far out right blog what do they call them survivalists? to be honest its so full of horse-s***t you cant really make out what its on about all about german philsophy and survival of the fittest, to be honest it looks like something out of the nazi scrapbook. it just goes on and on words words words, end of the world stuff. have a look and make your minds up.

heres a random q;uote "Monarchism. The point of a meritocracy is to pick the best people, and then over time, to encourage them to produce offspring with each other, because most (80%) of our abilities are derived from our genetics, not our education or upbringing. In short, we should treat ourselves like the plants and animals we domesticate, and breed ourselves upward for greater intelligence, beauty and moral character."

like ive said all along this guy is into some real fruitcake stuff. cant really believe hes prepared to go public on this wacky hitler type stuff. all the antieast europen ranting now makes total sense. i knew i was right about this guy biomech. scary.
Right ive just had a look at bnpmechs loony tune website called www.amerika.org and yep its a far out right blog what do they call them survivalists? to be honest its so full of horse-s***t you cant really make out what its on about all about german philsophy and survival of the fittest, to be honest it looks like something out of the nazi scrapbook. it just goes on and on words words words, end of the world stuff. have a look and make your minds up. heres a random q;uote "Monarchism. The point of a meritocracy is to pick the best people, and then over time, to encourage them to produce offspring with each other, because most (80%) of our abilities are derived from our genetics, not our education or upbringing. In short, we should treat ourselves like the plants and animals we domesticate, and breed ourselves upward for greater intelligence, beauty and moral character." like ive said all along this guy is into some real fruitcake stuff. cant really believe hes prepared to go public on this wacky hitler type stuff. all the antieast europen ranting now makes total sense. i knew i was right about this guy biomech. scary. SchizTroll

8:28am Wed 10 Apr 13

SchizTroll says...

Biomech wrote:
It's a very commonly accepted ideology that multiculturalism does not work. This article touches on the issue but there is a plethora of research and studies backing up the ideas.

http://www.amerika.o

rg/politics/diversit

y-doesnt-work/
Been having a dig around Biomechs website very interesting. the bloke who runs it is called Brett Stevens, got this from a webstie called Hatewatch.

"Though not well known outside of white nationalist circles, Stevens is a well-read and prolific blogger who believes that political correctness and diversity have undermined the natural social order. He is a fan based on his blog roll of the VDARE hate site, which has published anti-Semitic, racist and anti-immigrant materials. He is also an admirer of racist ideologue Jared Taylor, founder of the group American Renaissance. Taylor once wrote, “When blacks are left entirely to their own devices, Western civilization — any kind of civilization — disappears.”

its gets better - read this about the Oslo gunman who killed all those students in 2011. "Brett Stevens was practically giddy to learn that Anders Breivik, who murdered more than 70 people this past Friday in an anti-Muslim murder spree, had quoted his writing.

“I am honored to be so mentioned by someone who is clearly far braver than I,” Stevens wrote on Sunday. “o comment on his methods, but he chose to act where many of us write, think and dream.”

Heres the link www.splcenter.org/bl
og/2011/07/26/americ
an-blogger-praises-o
slo-shooter/

What about this, about 'black run america? "Ideally, I would like to see my native state get out from the underneath the federal government, overthrow BRA in a social revolution, and establish a society that is run for the benefit of White people, not for the benefit of minorities.

More. "If black people wanted to live in a black society, they could move to Macon County, AL or Lowndes County, AL, where blacks are predominant and control all the local political offices. Black people don’t want to live in a racially homogeneous society for understandable reasons. They want to live in Whitopias where they can reap all the benefits of living in the White world."

Ok everyone so this is the lovely biomech voice of reason nice guy. this is the kind of stuff hes asking us to read and advertising on hereford times. unbelievable.
[quote][p][bold]Biomech[/bold] wrote: It's a very commonly accepted ideology that multiculturalism does not work. This article touches on the issue but there is a plethora of research and studies backing up the ideas. http://www.amerika.o rg/politics/diversit y-doesnt-work/[/p][/quote]Been having a dig around Biomechs website very interesting. the bloke who runs it is called Brett Stevens, got this from a webstie called Hatewatch. "Though not well known outside of white nationalist circles, Stevens is a well-read and prolific blogger who believes that political correctness and diversity have undermined the natural social order. He is a fan based on his blog roll of the VDARE hate site, which has published anti-Semitic, racist and anti-immigrant materials. He is also an admirer of racist ideologue Jared Taylor, founder of the group American Renaissance. Taylor once wrote, “When blacks are left entirely to their own devices, Western civilization — any kind of civilization — disappears.” its gets better - read this about the Oslo gunman who killed all those students in 2011. "Brett Stevens was practically giddy to learn that Anders Breivik, who murdered more than 70 people this past Friday in an anti-Muslim murder spree, had quoted his writing. “I am honored to be so mentioned by someone who is clearly far braver than I,” Stevens wrote on Sunday. “[N]o comment on his methods, but he chose to act where many of us write, think and dream.” Heres the link www.splcenter.org/bl og/2011/07/26/americ an-blogger-praises-o slo-shooter/ What about this, about 'black run america? "Ideally, I would like to see my native state get out from the underneath the federal government, overthrow BRA in a social revolution, and establish a society that is run for the benefit of White people, not for the benefit of minorities. More. "If black people wanted to live in a black society, they could move to Macon County, AL or Lowndes County, AL, where blacks are predominant and control all the local political offices. Black people don’t want to live in a racially homogeneous society for understandable reasons. They want to live in Whitopias where they can reap all the benefits of living in the White world." Ok everyone so this is the lovely biomech voice of reason nice guy. this is the kind of stuff hes asking us to read and advertising on hereford times. unbelievable. SchizTroll

7:10pm Wed 10 Apr 13

bobby47 says...

Biomech, Im a child of the 50's. I grew up in the Midlands and I lived through multiculturalism long before it was given a political name.
It was good then, it's good now and nothing stops my hometown from thriving, moving forward and being at ease with itself. The White, the Asian and the Black communities are still there, moving forward, thriving and getting on with oneanother.
There has only been one single change that I have observed. Lots of mixed race young people who can testify that diversity is no handicap to a society thriving and prospering.
On this single issue Biomech I can say that you are wrong. Completely wrong.
Look at the Roman Empire. That was hugely successful and prosperous and that society was made up of people's all across Europe, Africa and Asia.
My warmest regards to you all.
Biomech, Im a child of the 50's. I grew up in the Midlands and I lived through multiculturalism long before it was given a political name. It was good then, it's good now and nothing stops my hometown from thriving, moving forward and being at ease with itself. The White, the Asian and the Black communities are still there, moving forward, thriving and getting on with oneanother. There has only been one single change that I have observed. Lots of mixed race young people who can testify that diversity is no handicap to a society thriving and prospering. On this single issue Biomech I can say that you are wrong. Completely wrong. Look at the Roman Empire. That was hugely successful and prosperous and that society was made up of people's all across Europe, Africa and Asia. My warmest regards to you all. bobby47

7:34pm Wed 10 Apr 13

Biomech says...

I appreciate your opinion bobby, but I can assure you that I am not wrong - it's simple logic. Multicultural societies do not create diversity, they, in fact, do the polar opposite, they destroy cultures by diluting them. I'm sure you can see how a society that thrives on mixed race creates mixed raced offspring which, in turn, causes a decline in the non mixed populus? I certainly don't have anything against other people, but it's just logic. The Euro is a prime example, where is the culture we once enjoyed using francs, deutschmark and pesos?

It's quite funny really, people might think that I'm the xenophobe, when in actuality, it's my beliefs that want save cultures. I WANT to use Lira in Italy, I WANT to speak Spanish in Spain and I WANT to eat Turkish food in Turkey. I enjoy foreign films and love to read Spanish (I'll often read instruction manuals in Spanish because it's more fun) But when everyone does everything, it generates a new society that makes cultural differences insignificant. All I'm hoping is that you can see the logic. I don't know - to apply it even simply; take a glass of milk, add coffee grains and mix. Now where's the milk? Where's the coffee? Where's the individualism and characteristics of those "cultures"? But they happy exist side by side in the cupboard right.

I thank you for your post, I can see I'm not going to change your mind/s, I'm just hoping you can appreciate the logic.
I appreciate your opinion bobby, but I can assure you that I am not wrong - it's simple logic. Multicultural societies do not create diversity, they, in fact, do the polar opposite, they destroy cultures by diluting them. I'm sure you can see how a society that thrives on mixed race creates mixed raced offspring which, in turn, causes a decline in the non mixed populus? I certainly don't have anything against other people, but it's just logic. The Euro is a prime example, where is the culture we once enjoyed using francs, deutschmark and pesos? It's quite funny really, people might think that I'm the xenophobe, when in actuality, it's my beliefs that want save cultures. I WANT to use Lira in Italy, I WANT to speak Spanish in Spain and I WANT to eat Turkish food in Turkey. I enjoy foreign films and love to read Spanish (I'll often read instruction manuals in Spanish because it's more fun) But when everyone does everything, it generates a new society that makes cultural differences insignificant. All I'm hoping is that you can see the logic. I don't know - to apply it even simply; take a glass of milk, add coffee grains and mix. Now where's the milk? Where's the coffee? Where's the individualism and characteristics of those "cultures"? But they happy exist side by side in the cupboard right. I thank you for your post, I can see I'm not going to change your mind/s, I'm just hoping you can appreciate the logic. Biomech

7:35pm Wed 10 Apr 13

Biomech says...

I couldn't help but notice this one line Bobby, "The White, the Asian and the Black communities are still there", do you see segregation? There is no one multicultural society, they have been made into distinct social groups.
I couldn't help but notice this one line Bobby, "The White, the Asian and the Black communities are still there", do you see segregation? There is no one multicultural society, they have been made into distinct social groups. Biomech

8:21pm Wed 10 Apr 13

bobby47 says...

Biomech, you and I have disagreed but we will never fall out.
As Im tapping this keyboard I am smiling. Smiling at you. You are very forthright, at times clumsy and often, without realising it, extremely insensitive. But, I know that it's just your blunt and fearless manner that often gets you showered in Schiztroll's venom.
We are all different old friend and who am I to give you advice. I've certainly offended more people than I care to remember and that's down to me and my clumsy and chaotic thinking.
My warmest regards to you.
Biomech, you and I have disagreed but we will never fall out. As Im tapping this keyboard I am smiling. Smiling at you. You are very forthright, at times clumsy and often, without realising it, extremely insensitive. But, I know that it's just your blunt and fearless manner that often gets you showered in Schiztroll's venom. We are all different old friend and who am I to give you advice. I've certainly offended more people than I care to remember and that's down to me and my clumsy and chaotic thinking. My warmest regards to you. bobby47

8:50pm Wed 10 Apr 13

Biomech says...

I find the more I age the more blunt I become, bullsh!t has slowly taken it's toll on me to the point that I find it no longer required :P

Thank you kind sir! (and now you have me speaking like a fellow Knight!)
I find the more I age the more blunt I become, bullsh!t has slowly taken it's toll on me to the point that I find it no longer required :P Thank you kind sir! (and now you have me speaking like a fellow Knight!) Biomech

10:26pm Wed 10 Apr 13

dippyhippy says...

Schiztroll, thankyou for taking the time to research your response. You have made clear points and challenges,and your posting makes much better reading because of it. Well done!
People are far less likely to disregard your comments when they are put forward in this manner,they will listen!
Take care.
Schiztroll, thankyou for taking the time to research your response. You have made clear points and challenges,and your posting makes much better reading because of it. Well done! People are far less likely to disregard your comments when they are put forward in this manner,they will listen! Take care. dippyhippy

9:19pm Sun 14 Apr 13

SchizTroll says...

bobby47 wrote:
Biomech, you and I have disagreed but we will never fall out.
As Im tapping this keyboard I am smiling. Smiling at you. You are very forthright, at times clumsy and often, without realising it, extremely insensitive. But, I know that it's just your blunt and fearless manner that often gets you showered in Schiztroll's venom.
We are all different old friend and who am I to give you advice. I've certainly offended more people than I care to remember and that's down to me and my clumsy and chaotic thinking.
My warmest regards to you.
The venom doesn't come from me but your far right buddy biomech who gets us to read weirdo white supremacist gay hating junk from nutjob american nazi wannabes. Total scum.
[quote][p][bold]bobby47[/bold] wrote: Biomech, you and I have disagreed but we will never fall out. As Im tapping this keyboard I am smiling. Smiling at you. You are very forthright, at times clumsy and often, without realising it, extremely insensitive. But, I know that it's just your blunt and fearless manner that often gets you showered in Schiztroll's venom. We are all different old friend and who am I to give you advice. I've certainly offended more people than I care to remember and that's down to me and my clumsy and chaotic thinking. My warmest regards to you.[/p][/quote]The venom doesn't come from me but your far right buddy biomech who gets us to read weirdo white supremacist gay hating junk from nutjob american nazi wannabes. Total scum. SchizTroll

6:50pm Mon 15 Apr 13

bobby47 says...

Schiztroll, hello kiddo. Sorry I wasn't ignoring you, I'd forgotten about this Post.
The term 'venom' wasn't meant to be funny in anyway. I wasn't having a 'pop' at you.
My very warmest regards.
Schiztroll, hello kiddo. Sorry I wasn't ignoring you, I'd forgotten about this Post. The term 'venom' wasn't meant to be funny in anyway. I wasn't having a 'pop' at you. My very warmest regards. bobby47

7:39pm Mon 15 Apr 13

Biomech says...

I wondered why I kept getting notifications and there not being any new posts. Shes posting again I assume.
I wondered why I kept getting notifications and there not being any new posts. Shes posting again I assume. Biomech

7:59pm Mon 15 Apr 13

bobby47 says...

Biomech, bloody hell! Im trying to make peace with this Poster and you are poking the wasps nest with a stick.
I've got another Poster having a go back on another thread and Im stuck in the middle of it all.
Dippy! Help!
Biomech, bloody hell! Im trying to make peace with this Poster and you are poking the wasps nest with a stick. I've got another Poster having a go back on another thread and Im stuck in the middle of it all. Dippy! Help! bobby47

10:09pm Mon 15 Apr 13

Biomech says...

heh don't blame me, I don't see it's posts, one of the benefits of being good with computers :)
heh don't blame me, I don't see it's posts, one of the benefits of being good with computers :) Biomech

1:52pm Tue 16 Apr 13

dippyhippy says...

C'mon everybody - where's the love?
We have vastly different points of view,and there are subjects that we will never agree on - but there's no need to fall out!
For my part, I think Schiztrolls response was well researched and put together,and echoed my own thoughts on the link.
Schitztroll, Bobby would not have meant any offence whatsoever.Please don't think he was trying to be offensive - he wasn't!
And Biomech, whilst I feel we are never going to be singing from the same hymn sheet on this subject, I look forward to hearing your views on many many other subjects!
There. Are we all happy now??
Good! We will say no more.
Peace and love folks,peace and love....
C'mon everybody - where's the love? We have vastly different points of view,and there are subjects that we will never agree on - but there's no need to fall out! For my part, I think Schiztrolls response was well researched and put together,and echoed my own thoughts on the link. Schitztroll, Bobby would not have meant any offence whatsoever.Please don't think he was trying to be offensive - he wasn't! And Biomech, whilst I feel we are never going to be singing from the same hymn sheet on this subject, I look forward to hearing your views on many many other subjects! There. Are we all happy now?? Good! We will say no more. Peace and love folks,peace and love.... dippyhippy

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