Market site secrecy "is angering public"

7:30pm Saturday 19th January 2013 in News

HEREFORDIANS are becoming increasingly angry at the secrecy surrounding a company involved in the city’s multimillion pound retail complex, a councillor has warned.

Lib Dem leader Councillor Terry James told members debating whether Hereford Futures should be more open on various matters that the authority “weaves itself a tangled web”.

“It is about perception and ours is appalling,” he warned.

“I get it regularly from the public. They perceive it that we have handed money to a private organisation which seems unaccountable and secret.

“The public is becoming very, very angry, and is going to get more angry because it is finding the council is not being open.”

Hereford Futures, which is one of the main players in the Old Livestock Market (OLM) development, was asked to attend the overview and scrutiny meeting to explain issues surrounding its governance, including the way it assesses what information should be branded confidential.

Council leader and Futures board member John Jarvis took the opportunity to take a swipe at It’s Our County chief, Coun Mark Hubbard, who faces a council probe into claims he took confidential documents from an officer’s desk without permission.

The opposition member had asked the leader how he kept up-to-date with Futures meetings after revealing he does not keep minutes in his office.

“I don’t keep them here,” said Coun Jarvis. “We’ve had a problem with security recently.

The committee agreed to recommend to cabinet that a protocal is drawn up regarding the redaction of minutes from Hereford Futures board meetings.

Comments(36)

Ubique5740 says...
7:57pm Sat 19 Jan 13

This article is timed 7.30pm today,Saturday 19th Jan 2013, as all that can be said about Hereford Futures etal has been said , all I am interested in is when was the meeting held - if today are they all on double time ( expenses ) ?

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megilleland says...
9:26pm Sat 19 Jan 13

This comes from the agenda of the General Overview and Scrutiny Committee meeting held on 14th January.
Overview and Scrutiny have requested a report detailing the governance and oversight arrangements of Hereford Futures. A number of specific questions were asked by Overview and Scrutiny Members and this report details a response to each of these in turn.

At its meeting on the 12th October 2012 the Overview and Scrutiny Committee requested that additional information be reported as to the operation of Hereford Futures Ltd. The Committee subsequently requested that the following five specific questions be answered:
1. What is Hereford Futures internal project management structure?
2. How do Hereford Futures metricate their target measurement and target tracking system
3. What self-assurance systems do Hereford Futures use to track against targets?
4. With commercial confidentiality high on the agenda, how do Hereford Futures assess what should be confidential and what is not?
5. What future arrangements are to be put in place to share information with the Council and the public?

Read the replies here:
http://councillors.h
erefordshire.gov.uk/
documents/s50010379/
Hereford%20Futures%2
0report.pdf

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dippyhippy says...
10:09am Sun 20 Jan 13

Forgive my ignorance,but why is it o.k for Jarvis to be council leader AND a member of Hereford Futures board? I would have thought that this was a blatant conflict of interest.As I have said before,I am a simple soul,so if someone could explain in a language I can understand,I would be truly grateful!

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Biomech says...
10:11am Sun 20 Jan 13

I don't understand what has to be kept so secrect. It's not like they are developing a new product, they are building shops, we know they are building shops, they are supposed to be building shops - theres nothing that falls into the category of corporate confidentiality.

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dippyhippy says...
10:22am Sun 20 Jan 13

I know what you mean Biomech. Simple I may be, I hold my hands up to that one,but thick I am not.If something is explained clearly, I can grasp It !! This whole thing seems to smack of "you scratch my back, and I'll scratch yours" the intertwining of council members and Hereford Futures,its never right. The extent of their under handed dealings is probably what they want kept secret.

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bobby47 says...
11:29am Sun 20 Jan 13

You ain't alone Dippy. I can't understand it either.
All I know is if any of us do something wrong or underhand its in our nature to try and hide it and keep things a secret.
Im guessing that a collective group of people are doing just that.

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William Rudd says...
3:22pm Sun 20 Jan 13

What a load of tripe.Only person angered in that story is Terry James.
You need to get a grip unlike the Lib Dem party you come from.

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Biomech says...
3:43pm Sun 20 Jan 13

Rudd, you do realise when you make a claim or statement that completely goes against the beliefs of the people you are making it to... you make yourself look like a complete moron....right?

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littlewhitebull says...
4:09pm Sun 20 Jan 13

The public is angered by secrecy regarding the market and the council? Really? Who could possibly believe such a statement? Whatever next?
Lottery tickets to cost £2? - don't believe it!
Council tax to rise by 1.9%? Tosh!
Governments to break promises? Never!
I believe in the greatness of our council leaders and that Elvis will serve me in Woollworths tomorrow.
Excuse me, please. I'm just off to take a photo of a porcine creature flying over Hay Bluff.

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bobby47 says...
6:30pm Sun 20 Jan 13

Biomech, Come on my good friend. Be nice to our William.
This site wouldn't be the same without him.
I miss the days when Will and Lukio used to bicker and snipe at oneanother. It'd be nice to have those days back.

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Biomech says...
6:59pm Sun 20 Jan 13

I find it difficult to be nice to complete morons who preach something in contrary to all the evidence.

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Gillian1961 says...
7:54pm Sun 20 Jan 13

Mr Jarvis quots that there is no paper work left around any more because he do's not trust mr hubbard and he probley do's not trust mr Terry James any more this is ripe coming from someone who as been bankrupt twice

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littlewhitebull says...
8:26pm Sun 20 Jan 13

Biomech wrote:
I find it difficult to be nice to complete morons who preach something in contrary to all the evidence.
Yes, some people go against the flow and indeed defy the evidence. But such folk must be allowed their perch to mullet over the facts, carp when necessary and flounder if they skate over the issue. They all have their plaice, even when a sole voice and out of tuna with the evidential process. Cod only knows what some old trouts are thinking. Dab on a little ointment to help the eeling process would be my remedy. I had a slight problem with our King – just a little sprat really – he forgave me and didn’t ruffe me up, though some thought my head should be on a pike next to the bull’s head in High Town. That made me quite tench, as I’m actually quite koi. Anyway, I must have a cup of char and repair the broken strings on my double bass. The future looks bleak? No, that’s pollocks!

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Ubique5740 says...
8:40pm Sun 20 Jan 13

Littlewhitebull - you had a whale of a time writing that .Thank you.

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bobby47 says...
8:51pm Sun 20 Jan 13

littlewhitebull, I aint even going to try and match that Posting mate.
Absolutely brilliant.

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wyesider says...
9:26pm Sun 20 Jan 13

I have to endorse the above comments about Littlewhitebull's contribution. Humour is the best medicine! It makes my contribution to this section rather stilted and lacklustre by comparison. But here goes:
Legislation was supposed to improve local accountability, yet council decision-making in many areas is now more secretive. The demise of local government transparency is reported on many websites. Scrutinising the workings of local government is made more difficult. Unsurprisingly, local democracy is seen to be seriously undermined and may explain why people don’t vote.
The introduction of Westminster-style council cabinets has increased secrecy and decreased accountability. Many people believe that the electorate feel betrayed and disassociated.
At the start of this millennium The Local Government Act was supposed to improve the workings of local councils, but seemed to have anomalies that were thankfully spotted before the passage of the original bill. An organisation called the Campaign for Freedom of Information campaigned successfully during the passage of the Bill against the government’s original intention that the new cabinets should be under no obligation to meet in public. This would have a complete reversal of long-standing public rights of access to traditional council and committee meetings. Due to this intervention the legislation was amended to require cabinets to meet in public for important decisions. However, there is, apparently, a loophole that enables private cabinet discussions.
Some councils stand accused of maximising their ability to take policy decisions in secret. This minimises the effect of the press and the public to scrutinise decisions made. These decisions have a direct effect on taxpayers, and for which they will pay. This also has the effect of depriving councillors without frontbench roles of the ability to scrutinise or challenge actions.

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bobby47 says...
9:20am Mon 21 Jan 13

Wyesider, That's a great piece of work my friend. Brilliant!

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William Rudd says...
9:32am Mon 21 Jan 13

Biomuck....You are the one who is delirious.

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William Rudd says...
9:32am Mon 21 Jan 13

Biomuck....You are the one who is delirious.

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William Rudd says...
9:32am Mon 21 Jan 13

Biomuck....You are the one who is delirious.

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wyesider says...
10:33am Mon 21 Jan 13

bobby47 wrote:
Wyesider, That's a great piece of work my friend. Brilliant!
Thank you, Bobby. I do my best, as I often tell my wife. Naturally, she does not believe me.
There is an e-petition started to try and persuade the government to make all council decisions open to public scrutiny. The petition is available at epetitions.direct.go
v.uk/petitions/38626

Anyone who is interested might like to visit the site.
The Local Authorities (Executive Arrangements) (Meetings and Access to Information) (England) Regulations 2012 (the 2012 Regulations) came into force on 10 September 2012. This was supposed to reduce secrecy employed by local councils more open, but as with most rules/regulations there appear to be loopholes.
I won't bore you with details here. Again, people can read the regulations on the internet should they be interested enough.

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Biomech says...
11:14am Mon 21 Jan 13

William Rudd wrote:
Biomuck....You are the one who is delirious.
Says the guy who posts the same insult 3 times.

You're really not doing yourself any favours.

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mizza21 says...
11:47am Mon 21 Jan 13

dippyhippy wrote:
Forgive my ignorance,but why is it o.k for Jarvis to be council leader AND a member of Hereford Futures board? I would have thought that this was a blatant conflict of interest.As I have said before,I am a simple soul,so if someone could explain in a language I can understand,I would be truly grateful!
dippy.. It's not OK really.
I had to read that bit twice in the text of the article, because I could not believe such a blatant abuse was legal.
Then to compound the seeming abuse of power with secrecy beggars belief.

This is taxpayers money. We have no choice but to pay it.

This is like the kind of abuses that go on in places like Albania or Italy.
I would imagine even Silvio Berlusconi might have a sharp intake of breath reading that revelation above.

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bobby47 says...
3:09pm Mon 21 Jan 13

Dippy, T'other day I posted some drivel referring to you and I being simple people and morons. It was in the context of a clumsy joke I was trying to make.
If I offended you I am sincerely sorry. It was not my intention to hurt your feelings.
I've mentioned this now because of the impact my words had very recently on William Rudd.
I hope you accept my apology my good friend.

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William Rudd says...
3:19pm Mon 21 Jan 13

I needed to insult you three times.
It's to make sure my insult registered in the tiny delusional mind you have

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wyesider says...
3:20pm Mon 21 Jan 13

When Councillor John Jarvis became the new Conservative group leader the following appeared on the Herefordshire Council website dated 18 May 2011:
“We will be accountable to the electorate of Herefordshire and do not take for granted the faith they have shown by returning us to power at the elections earlier this month. Herefordshire Council will be open and transparent in the way it conducts its business – we believe this is what local people want and desire from the politicians who make important decisions on their behalf. We hold this responsibility with great regard.”
He added that senior councillors will be subject to annual reviews of their performance, including himself, and that he sees the role of scrutiny committees to help develop policies………
“We want to be open in our decision making and open in our communication with residents. There will be no secrets – what you see is what you get.”

I wonder if people think these words ring true, or find them hard to take?

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Herefordian07 says...
4:01pm Mon 21 Jan 13

Wyesider, thank you for your archive report but I couldn't swallow Jarvis's words down even with a bottle of scotch, I have been to many meetings with most of the cabinet and to see them wriggle off any question they want to avoid is a master class of epic skill of saying a little that hides a lot, they are as transparent as a black hole.

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dippyhippy says...
6:31pm Mon 21 Jan 13

Oh dear Lord, King Bobby!! I most certainly do not feel offended in the slightest !! Indeed,for you to lump me in with you as a fellow moron,made me laugh!! Quite an honour really!No, you just keep on posting, this site would be a much poorer place without your delirious ,diazepam induced rants!!

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bobby47 says...
7:01pm Mon 21 Jan 13

Dippy, thanks my friend. I appreciate that.
But!...you know what I mean. It's so easy for any of us to write something and for the reader to read it, perhaps stew on it, see something that was never meant and then...all of a sudden youve offended someone and hurt their feelings.
My best regards Dippy.

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William Rudd says...
11:18am Tue 22 Jan 13

Oh I don't know Dippy..He is depriving a village somewhere of an idiot

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bobby47 says...
11:43am Tue 22 Jan 13

Steady on Will. This idiot has got teeth and they bite!

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dippyhippy says...
1:36pm Tue 22 Jan 13

Now now, c'mon you two ! As my old Mum used to say, " If you can't play nicely,you won't play at all !" Lets take a leaf out of the Dippy Hippy Handbook, and spread a little peace and love - this does NOT extend to Jarvis and co. - there is a limit !!

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littlewhitebull says...
8:09pm Tue 22 Jan 13

I hear that King Bobby was born on April 2; a day too late! Not sure of HRH's 'official birthday' when he attends trooping of the coolers in High Town.
Dippyhippy's handbook sounds like good value. Is it to be included in Herefordshire Matters?
Perhaps it should be borne in mind that a sharp tongue is no indication of a keen mind.

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brianjmee says...
8:31am Wed 23 Jan 13

Could I make a plea that no further insults are traded. It demeans the contributors and diverts from the real issues we need to be aired.
So to return, I presume that there is no conflict of interest with Mr Jarvis' twin roles , Cattle Market and Council Leader and that has been cleared by the scrutiny committee - or am I being a little naive !

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dippyhippy says...
1:58pm Wed 23 Jan 13

Quite right brianjmee ! And this takes us full circle , to my post asking the very same thing last Sunday!! I seem to re-call reading,maybe in a lengthier article on this in the H.T , that Mr. Jarvis thinks its O.K to wear two hats - he simply wears the one required to suit the circumstances. I think he has too many fingers in too many pies - its just not right,and doesn't sit comfortably with me at all. Until this article was printed, I had no idea that he was also a Hereford Futures board member,and I think I am quite good at keeping up to date ! How I missed this is a mystery !
Also, many thanks to littlewhitebull for his kind comment on the handbook - sadly,I don't think Hereford Matters would be interested !! I will partner up with Biomech,and put out an e- edition !

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TwoWheelsGood says...
9:39am Thu 24 Jan 13

The (former) Chief Executive Chris Bull was on the board at Hfd Futiles and presumably the new one will be as well. Cllr June French is on the board of Hoople, as are two council officers. I find this a very uneasy blurring of responsibilities and loyalties. More bluntly, it stinks. If you're going to outsource everything then do it and maintain a totally independent relationship. That’s what they've done with Amey, for instance.

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